[havadog]

My ds is 5 yrs old and has been "strong willed" since birth. I realized this at 6 weeks and have been doing a lot of reading on how to handle his personality. Our main problem now is that whenever I say "no", he always says "yes" and does what I tell him not to. (He does this with my husband, too) Lately, I've been resorting to spanking which I really don't want to do but nothing else seems to phase him. Sometimes, the spanking doesn't either.
I'm really getting concerned on how to get him to obey. I'm starting to get really angry with him and am afraid of where my anger is going. I'm a SAHM who has a husband who travels extensively with his job so ds and I are home alone alot. We don't have any relatives that live nearby so we depend on our friends.
I'm seeking any advice on how to handle our problem because I want our son to grow up to be a responsible and healthy man.

[babydawn]

I am not sure if this idea will work for your son or not. I also have a son who is very strong willed. He will be turning 5 this summer. Spankings and timeouts were not doing the trick. We even tried a reward system where he had a sticker chart on the fridge and each of the things that he loved to do that he wasn't supposed to was listed and every day he went without doing an item, he would get a sticker in that row. I told him that when a whole row was filled, I would take him to the store and get him a treat and once the whole chart was full, I would take him to McDonalds and we would go inside to eat and he could play. Nothing I had tried was working, he was still constantly doing things he knew he shouldn't and disobeying me. I heard of an interesting dicipline technique and decided to try it out. We have only been using it a week but I have seen remarkable improvements. It is based on a counting system. Every morning my son starts out on a 0. As he does things he shouldn't he moves up the scale and the punishment changes and gets worse. This is the scale we use.

1 - warning (I tell him he had better start making better choices)
2 - stand in the corner for a time out
3 - no tv or computer games for the rest of the day
4 - take away "blankies" for the rest of the day and night
5 - pick up dog poop
6 - spanking from dad

So far, the highest he has gotten has been a four, and that was only once. Usually he only gets to a two. I typed it out (not that he can read) and hung it on the fridge and I sat down and went over everything with him. Now when he starts doing something he isn't supposed too, I say, "Cannon, do you need to be at a one? (or two, etc)." Usually, he quits the behavior and we move on. This sort of dicipline is a little more time consuming, but for my 4 year old, it has worked wonders. There has been a change in his attitude, he seems happier, and I have noticed a big difference in him and myself. I am less stressed as well. Of course you would have to make up a scale that would work for you and your family. Good luck. Let me know how things turn out.

[ihavethebestfamily]

I like to use the word 'spirited' instead of 'strong willed' because it sounds more positive and less confrontational

My daughter, at two-and-a-half years-old, also has a spirited personality that can really irritate me sometimes. I've found that if I feel like I'm going to 'blow my lid', that telling my dd "I'm feeling mad and need some space" usually works. She then wants to know why I'm mad, so we'll start to talk about the entire situation. Yeah, this is the best case scenario.

In situations where she's just being totally wild I'll stop whatever I'm doing (including pulling over while driving) and talk eye-to-eye with her. Asking specific questions helps to dissolve her anger. There was a good book I read years ago when I taught elementary--its title was something like "How to Talk to Students so That They Can Learn". Wonderful book. There were other titles by its two female authors that centered in on child rearing. The authors use cartoon examples in their books, making it easy to visually understand their methods.

I wish I had more to give. I'm saving babydawn's advice for future reference.

[haleysmommy]

I too have a "spirited" child, she's 2.5 and can send me off the edge several times a week. Until I saw this post I was thinking I failed her. I am a stay at home mom and my husband just keeps telling me she needs a good spanking but I don't like to spank. When Haley's throwing a fit she kicks me and hits me and if I am telling her not to hit then I can't be hitting her. (If that makes sense). Thanks for posting this and to all the others for their advice... It's helpful to know I am not alone!

[MJ7]

I've got a strong headed spirited child as well. I recall what our pastor shared about breaking the child's will but not their spirit. I strongly believe the defiance needs to be nipped in the bud at this age to avoid worse issues later. Interestinly, parenting a spirited child is not like parenting a child who is not. I found spanking is useless with many of these kids and that you are forced to be more creative. I STRONGLY encourage you to pick up a book called Parenting With Love And Logic . I believe you will find MANY helpful tips. It's changed the way I parent and made my life so much easier. I really don't think you'll be disapointed. I've started reading Your Spirited Child but personally haven't been as happy with it as so much of the sympoms they name in spirited children are symptoms of Sensory Integration Dysfunction--which my son has as well making things more interesting. .

Revoking priveleges seems to help best and relearning how to talk to your child so they'll get it. PLEASE pick up Parenting with Love and Logic!!! I really believe it's perhaps the best and easiest parenting book out there.

MJ

[havadog]

I'm so appreciative of all who have responded. The past week or so, I've been so depressed about how to handle this situation...both for my son and myself. I will try to point system and also pick up the book.

Thanks again

[Mogulander]

Babydawn, I like your theory and am pleased the point system seems to be working for you, however, there is one flaw in your list and unbeknown to me until a few years later I was the subject of such a system. Spanking from Dad is not a point system and the mere threat creates a barrier between father and children. The father should never be used as an instrument of punishment or for that matter the mother.
So you all have high spirited children, that is so great. Why can you not live with it, why can you not accommodate the behaviour? All children's actions are by nature and nurture until they start school. Some of you should be looking to see if the children are rebelling against a younger Sib coming along and feel rejected after being the centre of attention. Is the child seeking attention and why? If nature and nurture has been changed to cause and effect through a domestic change before that child is ready, then you will have a rebellious child. Another thing to look at; is the child in doing what they are not supposed to be, merely experimenting and trying to do the same as mum and Dad. You should be watching your child and study these traits to see what it is they want and though you deem it wrong or not what they should be doing, ask yourself, should I be helping them do it right which seems strange for a child of this age, or , why am i stopping him or her from doing that.
A child is a result of many things, primarily mum and dad (which is obvious) from conception and growth in the womb to birth and first physical touches. You have shaped that child and what they have grown to. By the time they are born they instinctively know fear, love, noise, the difference in feeling between a row and just shouting. They understand love and sadness. I have fathered eight children, every one is different, each has had their own demands and been catered for. It has not been easy, but they have never been treated as if they are in the way of what we wanted to do which breeds tantrum children. They are as diverse as chalk and cheese, two have what is classed mental issues, but they are as normal as you and I, something I mentioned in another post. One took to drugs but has overcome it. One is a stay at home mum, one is a lecturer at university and has his own web and graphic design business, another is a keep fit fanatic and professional snooker player through ranking around about 100. One was doing real well and committed suicide, why we will never know but left us with a beautiful grandson. One is successful in retail and two left at school shortly to leave, one is intent on being a child care worker while the other is studying to be a vet. Each has been allowed to develop in their own way with their own trait and moods. Mood swings should never be acknowledged but spoken about when they are in a sober frame of mind so you can get them thinking about consequences of their actions, never challenge a child unless there is a danger to themselves or someone else when they are in that situation. Just some of my own experiences, don't know if they are right or wrong merely placed on here for ideas and a different way of thinking.
Mind you, don't think I have never worried I should really be bald or in a white coat from stress at times

[babydawn]

Originally Posted by Mogulander

Babydawn, I like your theory and am pleased the point system seems to be working for you, however, there is one flaw in your list and unbeknown to me until a few years later I was the subject of such a system. Spanking from Dad is not a point system and the mere threat creates a barrier between father and children. The father should never be used as an instrument of punishment or for that matter the mother.

I understand that many will find that a spanking from his father as a flaw. I just don't agree. I find that it has worked well for our family. My two older children have had a small handful of spanking their whole lives and it has been unnecessary to give them any more. They responded well to being put in time outs and what not. I do believe in punishments for disobeying the rules and spankings are not by any means my first choice, but they are not ruled out in our home either.

Originally Posted by Mogulander

So you all have high spirited children, that is so great. Why can you not live with it, why can you not accommodate the behaviour?

Because my son got to the point to where the things he was doing were potential very dangerous. I will not allow him to do those things. He drank half a bottle of antibiotics, they were his, he got in the fridge and hid behind a chair. He did this in a matter of minutes, forget about child resistant caps, it didn't do any good for him. An alarm on the stove woke us up in the middle of the night, I came out to find him sitting on the stove with a butcher knife cutting up a piece of bread. He did not get spankings for these things, but his actions needed to be controlled somehow. He was becoming dangerous to himself. He was also only 2 at the time and he had no younger sibling at this time.

Originally Posted by Mogulander

All children's actions are by nature and nurture until they start school. Some of you should be looking to see if the children are rebelling against a younger Sib coming along and feel rejected after being the centre of attention. Is the child seeking attention and why?

He does have one now. His behavior has shifted from being dangerous to being defiant, but that happened as well before his younger sister came along. Yes, he may be having a reaction to his baby sister, who he loves so much, he is always hugging her and playing with her, and getting me when she is upset. He does not act jealous towards her in anyway, I must add. I try my best to make sure that I spend one on one time with him everyday.

Originally Posted by Mogulander

I have fathered eight children, every one is different, each has had their own demands and been catered for. It has not been easy, but they have never been treated as if they are in the way of what we wanted to do which breeds tantrum children. They are as diverse as chalk and cheese, two have what is classed mental issues, but they are as normal as you and I, something I mentioned in another post. One took to drugs but has overcome it. One is a stay at home mum, one is a lecturer at university and has his own web and graphic design business, another is a keep fit fanatic and professional snooker player through ranking around about 100. One was doing real well and committed suicide, why we will never know but left us with a beautiful grandson. One is successful in retail and two left at school shortly to leave, one is intent on being a child care worker while the other is studying to be a vet. Each has been allowed to develop in their own way with their own trait and moods. Mood swings should never be acknowledged but spoken about when they are in a sober frame of mind so you can get them thinking about consequences of their actions, never challenge a child unless there is a danger to themselves or someone else when they are in that situation. Just some of my own experiences, don't know if they are right or wrong merely placed on here for ideas and a different way of thinking.

It sounds to me like you have been a fabulous father to many outstanding children. My children seem to be developing just fine, but I understand from a siblings point of view about mental issues. I have a brother with schizophrenia and a drug addiction to meth, I have another brother who the doctors are pretty sure is bipolar. Both have tried to take their own lives, both were not successful, thank heavens. I do feel however, that children do need dicipline.
Limits have to be set, and children need boundries. I don't pretend to be the best parent, I know that I have multiple flaws, but I am doing what is working the best for me and my children. The dramatic change in my son's behavior with this point system is awesome. The last two days, he didn't even get to a one. It is our job as parents to teach them the best we can on how to obey rules and live productive lives. That is what my goal is.

[babydawn]

Mogulander - I just felt like I needed to add, you remind me a lot of my father - and just so you know, that is probably one of the highest compliments I could give someone.

[erika h]

Hi havadog! I just recorded a whole audio blog entry on discipining methods beyond timeouts (you can listen online at http://womengrow.org/mp3-archive/GROW-011.mp3 or through the main page at http://www.womengrow.org/podcast).

The method I primarily focus on is called the choice method, and it has been great for my own kids as well as for several families I have had the opportunity to counsel. Essentially, you are giving your child the choice to reward or punish himself - consistency in your follow-through is key, though.

In a nutshell, the choice method is very language driven, but effective for children 2-3 and older. You would say: "If you choose to do [insert inappropriate behaviour], then you choose to lose [insert favorite toy or activity]. If you choose to [stop inappropriate behavior], then you choose to keep [favorite toy or activity]. It is up to you."

If you have any questions, please feel free to email (email is in the audio blog and on the website).

Good luck!