[pattiewrites]

I also have a "spirited child". Her personality traits will serve her well as an adult, although it can be trying now. When she was little, I read a great book by Dr. William Sears: "Parenting Your Fussy Baby and High Need Child." Also, in many spirited children, excessive punishment can backfire and turn into a power struggle. This is no good for anyone and will make the behavior worse. They will NOT be controlled. Another great book is "The Secret of Parenting: How to Be in Charge of Today's Kids Without Threats or Punishment." It's by Dr. Anthony Wolf. The techniques really do work. And it's an easy read and very funny.

Anyone who has read some of my previous posts will know that I am anti spanking. But for a spirited child, I think spanking is really not a good idea. It will only make them more angry. Anger issues should not be dealt with in this way. I have found they learn a lesson better through natural or logical consequences, rather than spankings.

[andi3]

I have 2 VERY strong willed children! The first is 8 yrs old and the second is 3. I have to use different techniques for both of them! One works for one and not the other. I have just found it out by trial and error1 I can't say that I haven't had my days where I was ready to quit, but Hey, everyone, including children, have their good days and bad days! Good Luck!!!

[AngieKA]

Hello Everyone.
My name is Angie, I am new here, I was reading some posts on how you all struggle with you children, and am happy announce, i am glad i am not the only one.
I have a four year old, Leesa, she is a fanstastic child, and is very adoring and lovable, she is unfortunately at a time in her life where she thinks she knows everything, a little to soon I think.
I was a single parent for most of her life, until i got involved with a really fabulous man, and we had a baby girl together, 10 months ago.
My Fiance' has been a part of Leesa's life ever since she could remember, he loves her as if she was his own.
The problem i am having is tearing me apart, she doesnt seem to care what i say, she looks straight through me and has total disregard for what i say.
I sometimes feel she is doing it on purpose, but she's not.
she pushes my boundaries DAILY, i cant scream and shout at her anymore, it's to much.
Suddenly she is afraid to sleep in her room and when you tell her to do something, it's a thousand words and questions.
Like a simple thing to bath her body with soap, is a HUGE issue, there is not one night that goes by where there isnt shouting and screaming and argueing in the house, i cant imagine what the neighbours think.
Nothing i do works, putting her in the corner, sending her to her room removing her toys i mean nothing works.
So if someone could give me some "fresh" ideas please I am Welcome to them.
She is a Scorpio child, and I am a Scorpio mother, so we clash a bit, and i dont want that, i want her to grow up not remembering the fights and arguments we have had.
they say that this time from when she was born to seven are her developing years.
I feel like i am failing her as a mother....i feel as though my heart is being ripped out of my chest...please help!!!!
thanks.
Angie

[Flossy]

Originally Posted by kartthinker

You people are rediculous.
Sure: just look you child in the eyes, learn to deal with the behavior, spank them...........that will fix it..........keep dreaming
Good grief, if you would have been a strong parent from the start you wouldn't have these problems. Now, because you have been weak, it will be harder for you to correct your errored ways...but you can still do it..just remember who is the parent.
The child did not create the problems...........you did.

What a nice post

In some cases it can be due to 'weak' parenting but you can't just lump everyone together and blame them for their 'problems' (for want of a better word). Some children are a handful, spirited or whatever you want to call it - its nothing to do with how they are parented, its what makes each child different from the next.

Thanks goodness there have been some helpful advice in this thread.

[mollymae]

I agree! I have 4 kids and have no problems parenting or displining 3 of them but the other one is a law unto himself. His spiritness will carry him far in life but it doesn't make him easy to parent because he constantly pushing against the boundries. I don't want to 'spank' the fight out of him but more try to re direct him to activities that will take advantage of his 'strong will'

I agree its hard work sometimes, and sometime it can feel like your banging your head on a brick wall. A good strong positive mental attitude can help wonders for the 'disipline' to have more effect. If you beleive it will work it is more likely too.

[kalhayd3]

BabyDawn: I totally agree with your system. I have my bachelor’s degree in behavioral science and will be working with toddlers with a multitude of behavioral issues. The “step” systems work wonders and it is often one of the first resources individuals in my field try. I don’t feel there is any harm in making the father do the spankings because children tend to respond faster to men. We often use point systems for rewards as well but this can actually cause more harms than good. The child expects the prize and if not given the behavior may escalate. So, I have to say, GOOD JOB!

As far as the posters who were quick to point blame on parents for their children’s behaviors. I totally disagree. Our personalities are molded from our environments- but not completely. In fact, only 60% of our adult personalities are a direct result from how we were raised. That leaves an additional 40% for a plethora of other issues. Unfortunately, in today’s society when we see a disobedient “spirited” child the first people we blame are mom and dad. Like posted before, this is not always the case.

[Mogulander]

[quote=AngieKA]Hello Everyone.

I have a four year old, Leesa, she is a fantastic child, and is very adoring and lovable, she is unfortunately at a time in her life where she thinks she knows everything, a little to soon I think.
She is a Scorpio child, and I am a Scorpio mother, so we clash a bit, and i don't want that, i want her to grow up not remembering the fights and arguments we have had.
Angie, sounds like you have your hands full. I don't know if this will help, but I would have a look back at my own childhood to see what frightened you and why you used to rebel. Also a good point that you raise is the one on one you and your daughter shared for a while; now she has to take a back seat. You may not see that but she does with two extra people coming into her life and that the time now has to be shared on three of you. She has had to accept this situation without regard for her, that's what she is feeling, and being a spirited Scorpio does not help as they are very protective as you would know of things that belong to them. Anyone invading that space will get stung, and unfortunately it sounds as if you are having the same reaction as your daughter, that is listen girl this is my space so you will do as you are told, then you lose the plot. Maybe not in those words but you can hear where I am coming from. Basically the child needs security reassurance, and it has to come from you.
Though this is not on par with your problem, it is in a sense from the same angle. Short story so you can see how this evolved.
Two years ago march 30th I lost my 18 year old daughter leaving us with a grandson 18 months old. My wife cared for him and spoilt him rotten, then on March 27th this year I lost my wife, and have become sole carer of my grandson. We also had a Great Dane that he grew up with that died through a road accident at the end of June, at the same time my 15 year old daughter who has had problems accepting her mothers death moved out. So for my Grandson who is 4 on Saturday has had one loss after another over the last couple of years.
He became very rebellious and ended up me having to lose my job to look after him as he would not go back to kindy, the tears were sad to see. I had already deduced it was loss and fear of being left that was tormenting him, but how do you explain or show a three year old, or even try and get him to understand?
I am by nature a very patient person, and very seldom get angry as I can see and sort problems before they manifest. But this situation had caught me off guard and I was getting a little hot under the collar as no reason or reasoning could break this barrier with him. So after about three weeks I started talking to him about going back to Kindy so that poppy (Australian for Grandad) could start to get things done and find another job, this lasted for two weeks and he appeared to be ready to go back.
The day arose and duly we arrived at kindy, and the tears started to roll which I expected, but was not prepared for what happened next. As I tried to leave chairs were slung across the room, the carer was kicked and the door was constantly kicked as well as the screaming. I went back into the room, grabbed him by the scruff of his collar and marched him out. I then instilled two sharp smacks to the bottom which he has never had before, I then knelt in front of him to look him in the eye whilst holding his collar to maintain eye contact and in a sure voice, not shouting but assertive told him straight that no one was leaving him, that he would be coming home later and everyone will be there. I then stood up and marched him back into the room and left.
When I got back that afternoon I fully expected him to be somewhere else and me to be arrested as you are not allowed to smack children these days especially in public. I apologised for what I did, but was soon silenced by the staff saying what you did was right for the moment, and that the day was the best they have ever had with him. That was three weeks ago, and everyday is a bonus and now he runs into kindy and looks forward to each day.
Like I said, it probably has no relevance to your situation, but keeping your cool and not coming down to your daughters level and shouting, taking your time to analyse what it is that is disturbing her and dealing with it before it escalates into something she will never understand and become part of her is what you need to do.
I don't envy you in your efforts with this, but wish you well and hope this helps even in a little way. God Bless Paul

[familyglue]

I'm glad I found this post. So many of you have so mand ideas and knowledge to contribute, that its good to know parents still care about the quality of the minds we are introducingI'm so surprise that I am not the parent of a nut and that other people are going through my experiences. Kids are so different from when we were kids, and it seems the game and rules have also changed. Somehow when I was a child the love and respect felt normal and natural to give to my parents. I feel like I have be deserving and worthy of it, which is not how I was brought it. So it almost like I have to be re-engineered in order to be a better parent. My 5 year old DS is not acting up at home and not with me, but at school and with everyone else but me. It's like Jekyll and Hyde. I believe in spanking, but I dont like it and the situation must warrant it and it cant be in anger. But something MJ7 said, spanking and timeouts seem to be useless. It's like he lives in his world and by his rules and nothing you do can phase him. He just adapts his environment. It's like we are battling to see who will break first. You all have given great incite and I will sure try everyone if need be, because I want the see happy little one I had, I dont know where he went. I too had a point system, but not as visual maybe i can try that. I did try let him make choice it was a failed strategy. And yes, I do feel like a failure too. I have am 8 months pregnant with my new husband of 1 1/2 years and we have done everything in our power to create a stable family life just so he can feel a sense of home and family including go from renting to a mortage. This is so heart breaking.

[familyglue]

I didnt get the impression that any of these parents are not trying to deal with it. They haven't said it isnt great. I sound like they are trying to get their spirited children to learn to react to life in a different manner. Which is the difference the parents who care and dont care about their kids behavior, and instead of having a spirited child who grows up with a strong, intelligent, think forst act later adult, you end up with a delinquent teenage and then a criminal, the drug addicts you and suicidal minds that you spoke. Because the real world does not make accomodation for you, they way you family does. I think this is what we a trying to prpare them for, and we cant wait until they are teenager to start teaching them the correct lessons.

Originally Posted by Mogulander

Babydawn, I like your theory and am pleased the point system seems to be working for you, however, there is one flaw in your list and unbeknown to me until a few years later I was the subject of such a system. Spanking from Dad is not a point system and the mere threat creates a barrier between father and children. The father should never be used as an instrument of punishment or for that matter the mother.
So you all have high spirited children, that is so great. Why can you not live with it, why can you not accommodate the behaviour? All children's actions are by nature and nurture until they start school. Some of you should be looking to see if the children are rebelling against a younger Sib coming along and feel rejected after being the centre of attention. Is the child seeking attention and why? If nature and nurture has been changed to cause and effect through a domestic change before that child is ready, then you will have a rebellious child. Another thing to look at; is the child in doing what they are not supposed to be, merely experimenting and trying to do the same as mum and Dad. You should be watching your child and study these traits to see what it is they want and though you deem it wrong or not what they should be doing, ask yourself, should I be helping them do it right which seems strange for a child of this age, or , why am i stopping him or her from doing that.
A child is a result of many things, primarily mum and dad (which is obvious) from conception and growth in the womb to birth and first physical touches. You have shaped that child and what they have grown to. By the time they are born they instinctively know fear, love, noise, the difference in feeling between a row and just shouting. They understand love and sadness. I have fathered eight children, every one is different, each has had their own demands and been catered for. It has not been easy, but they have never been treated as if they are in the way of what we wanted to do which breeds tantrum children. They are as diverse as chalk and cheese, two have what is classed mental issues, but they are as normal as you and I, something I mentioned in another post. One took to drugs but has overcome it. One is a stay at home mum, one is a lecturer at university and has his own web and graphic design business, another is a keep fit fanatic and professional snooker player through ranking around about 100. One was doing real well and committed suicide, why we will never know but left us with a beautiful grandson. One is successful in retail and two left at school shortly to leave, one is intent on being a child care worker while the other is studying to be a vet. Each has been allowed to develop in their own way with their own trait and moods. Mood swings should never be acknowledged but spoken about when they are in a sober frame of mind so you can get them thinking about consequences of their actions, never challenge a child unless there is a danger to themselves or someone else when they are in that situation. Just some of my own experiences, don't know if they are right or wrong merely placed on here for ideas and a different way of thinking.
Mind you, don't think I have never worried I should really be bald or in a white coat from stress at times

[QueenAngie]

Familyglue, welcome to the board!

Congrats on your #2 due before very long.

We are all here to support each other with
our triumphs and sharing what does not work too.

It takes a village to raise a child.

(((Hugs)))