[caringmom]

i am not sure where to start...but here we go... i have been divorced for almost 8 years. my ex husband and i have not gotten along since our divorce... We have a daughter who is almost 12 now and we share 50/50 physical custody of our daughter. i have to say that he has never been a terrible father but has done things over the years that have been emotionally abusive causing me to take him to family court to correct the problems... this has happened 3 different times over the past 8 years, the most recent late last year....i have always chalked his behavior up to him not having the parental knowledge of how to appropriately deal with our daughter.... anyhow... he now is engaged, which has not helped the situation at all... his fiance is just as emotionally abusive as he is and i believe a bit more...this also led to last years court appearance. anyhow...my ex and i had been in counseling together to help our daughter and stop the abusive behaviors. i believed we had come to some understandings, compromises, and built some trust.... well, this has all been shot down... we recently had a few issues regarding our daughter that we had discussed but he was getting hostile so i told him i was hanging up... he repeatedly called me at work and i had to keep telling him our conversation was over... we had discussed in counseling when things got heated how to handle them and i did just what we had agreed to... anyhow, he sent me an email the next day after this coversation accussing me of being irrational, screaming at him, and being hostile... none of which happened. i did respond to the email and i copied my lawyer and my daughters law guardian so they were aware since his email was totally inaccurate.... i fear he is trying to set me up.... we are going to an emergency counseling appointment tomorrow evening. i wrote everything down since things have been slowly going down hill since we settled in court..... it slowly is appearing to me after all these years that he acts appropriately when we are in court and when we are finished, he goes back to his same old behaviors thinking i am not going to protect our child... i don't know how to stop this cycle and the counseling doesn't seem to help him to stop.... any suggestions???

[floridamama]

I wish I had some really good advice for you, but it sounds like what you are doing (writing everything down as it happens) is the right thing to do! Just keep track of it all. Times, dates, behaviors, etc...journal it all, and show it to not only the therapist but the attorney.
Good luck!

[caringmom]

thanks floridamama.... i have been writing everything down but then he sends me these emails saying we talked on whatever day... and there was never a phone conversation...... i don't know where he's coming up with this stuff and why.... i fear that he will try to seek full custody of our daughter and i fear for my daughter if that ever did happen... i know i would fit like all heck and i don't think he would ever gain sole custody.... it's all very scary.... thank you for your support.... that's really what i needed most!

[pattiewrites]

I would speak to your attorney about how to handle the situation. I would definitely respond to the emails that refer to a conversation that never took place and state that there was no conversation on that day. If it continued, I'd either record the conversations or refuse any more discussions without the counselor to mediate until he acts like a reasonable adult. Ask your lawyer about the legality of recording. I think you can record your own conversations. You need to cover your own butt and protect your daughter. He sounds like a real prize; you're lucky to be rid of him!

[pattiewrites]

Oh I just wanted to add one thing. Ask your lawyer, but at 12 your daughter may have some say in where she lives. The judge will listen to her and take her experiences/feelings into consideration. The age of this input varies by state, so check with your lawyer about the law in your state. I wouldn't worry about losing custody.

[caringmom]

thanks for the suggestions pattiewrites... my lawyer did say the judge would consider what the child wants at age 13.... but i don't think my daughter would stand up to her father.... i had full custody of my daughter for three months last year due to the emotionally abusive behavior of her dad and fiance.... fortunately, with the court proceedings going on, they were on their best behavior, my ex and i were in counseling together(which i thought has resolved/corrected the issues) and my daughter told her law guardian that things were going well, that her dad and fiance weren't questioning her anymore, and she wouldn't mind going back to the 50/50 arrangement.... however, now my daughter told me she's not so sure she made the right decision because they have slowly been starting to do the same things to her... questioning her about what we do, what i say, where i take her, etc..... so on and so on... they also make negative comments about me, my husband and our one year old baby....(how could you be negative about a little innocent child is beyond me) i tell my daughter that she has every right to respectfully ask her dad and his fiance to talk to me about whatever they want to know and not to make negative comments about our family. my daughter says she tells them this but they persist and she feels she needs to give them answers to their questions cause if she doesn't they will say she is lying and she will be "talked" to for hours and then punished. i don't question my duaghter about what goes on in her father's home, she comes to me upset that this is happening... i try to do what we agreed in our counseling sessions...trust the other parent.....i do have my daughter in counseling, which seems to be helping her a great deal.... i hope our session tonight is helpful!!!! thanks again

[caringmom]

oh yeah.... my daughter's law gaurdian did say that i can tape phone conversations between my ex and i... not conversations between my daughter and her father, as that would be illegal.... this may be an option.... i do think he is illegally recording my conversations with my daughter when she is at his house... she will barely speak to me when she's there.... it's very strange and uncomfortable... my daughter and i are close and she talks to me very openly at home... so it's very awkward... we will see what plays tonight...

[mcmama]

I am really sorry you are going through this. It sounds like the groundwork is being laid for a custody challenge.

Follow your attorney's advice, and document everything, every conversation, and yes, tape his conversations with you. I tried that with my ex, and I swear he has a teflon voice - the tape only picked up me, even when he was in the room with me!

My ex illegally taped my son's grade level advisor, in a private telephone conference where she expressed concern about his grades and "the home situation". He intended to use that in court to bully me. My son caught him doing it, and told me. I told the advisor and she was livid. I don't think she believed me until I quoted to her what he had said, and then that prompted all sorts of apologies and stuff about being out of context etc. The school came down on him very hard - it's a private school where the kids had a huge scholarship. So they had some leverage, and the tapes were not introduced. But I suspect they were played for anyone he thought he could get sympathy from.

Some of what you are describing sounds familiar - my kids for years got the third degree at their dad's house, and then somehow it got around that I was putting them through that. They were coming home and telling me things that were truly unsettling. At one point he would not let them bring their homework to my house, because he had decided that I was the "fun" parent, and he was the "school" parent. He would mark their papers with red pencil and write notes to the teachers about his "concerns" and allow the kids to turn in their work after he had zeroxed it and cc'd to his attorney. Documenting, you see. He didn't stop when one teacher told him to stop, he had to be told by all of them and the principal. Of course, no one had a problem telling ME to tell him to stop it. "Now you two parents have to get along....." but it was up to me to make it happen.

Meantime, of course, some teachers were giving me the message that I had to back off and "let" my kids do their own homework and not hover and help so much. This gaslighting went on for years. It was so weird hearing his accusations come out of other people's mouths, using his words, when there was no basis in fact for what was being said. I couldn't hover. I only saw them a regimented 50% of their lives, during which we scheduled all their activities, medical appointments, therapy, and their homework most of the time had to be left at their dads or else. We had no law guardians then. Just lawyers billing and billing and billing and hiking the conflict. And three mediators, two of whom were utterly useless because they were just too politically correct and did not recognize what my ex was doing as abuse. I had to "give him a chance to learn to be a good dad", you see.

I always find that the words "50-50" and "abusive" in a conversation are a real red flag for using the kid to control the real parent. 50-50 custody arrangements that work require that each parent be available 100%! More often, too much attention is paid by one party in particular to "this is my time, that is your time" and ignoring the fact that the child's life is THEIR time, 100%! Meantime, the party who is doing the real work of parenting the whole human being is struggling to meet the child's needs for attention, often while sacrificing adult needs, in very short tightly scheduled bursts of time. Kids being kids, if there is an event, or the kid is sick, you meet the immediate need, and have the long term issues deferred until you are allowed to parent again.

My kids are nearly grown and they will not stand up to their father. If they did, my authority would be validated. Not having the authority to legally protect them from him has undermined my own authority. That is a very un politically correct point of view in the courts. My authority is only valid when they "agree". His authority on the other hand, is totally valid because he has the money to keep running up legal bills and the manic energy to continually invade privacy and embarrass.

Now would you like a laugh? Your ex is negative about your husband and baby, but my ex is negative about my cat, whom he has never met! My cat has a feral background, and adopting him was a true committment for me and my boys. We have the scratches to prove it! Well, they've complained (as they should) to my ex about this rotten cat, who loves ONLY ME AND NO ONE ELSE and who will hiss and defend me down to his last claw, and now they are amused at how virulently my ex says he hates the cat!

I am glad that you have a husband to stand by you, and a baby that you both share. It sounds like your ex is now finding love is better the second time around, and he wants that complete with your daughter - and the only way to achieve that given the way our legal system works is to trash you and your family. It s very stressful, and can really eat away at your current family stability and financial well being. Listen to your lawyer, and keep being the good mom you have tried to be all along.

[caringmom]

we had our counseling appointment last night and it went really well... we do not have everything worked out and probably never will but at least i unloaded all my feelings about his behavior and what i believe his ulterior motives are.... my ex actually apologized for his behaviors and claims that he is just simple and didn't think his behaviors would affect our daughter or myself.... i don't believe that since we had been in therapy before and addressed the exact issues! i told the therapist and my ex that i believe he has ulterior motives, that his actions are deceptive, spiteful and inappropriate.... he did not debate that but apologized again for making me feel that way.... he said he does not want to go back to court in any way at all... i am not sure i believe that either... i told them both that i don't want to return to court either but i will not hesitate to protect our daughter from him and his girlfriend... so we are trying and i am hoping that he becomes enlightened but if he's as simple as he suggests, i don't think he will ever get it... plus, his fiance is another story....she will always be jealous of me personally and always jealous that i have two beautiful daughters and she has none... i feel for her and hope she can overcome those feelings... however, my obligations are to my children and making life the best for them.... so that's my focus, not who's jealous of me and why
mcmama.... sounds like your ex really has put you through the ringer... i am hoping my situation doesn't get that bad... my ex is atleast willing to go to the counseling to avoid court.... i am still not 100% sure that is really his intentions but only time will tell!!!! i will continue to document, document, document.... i have had to over the years and he has always proven himself the foolish one! but as you know it is stressful on our daughter, me and my family... we always seem to get through it though and that's made our family relationships with one another stronger...as great as my husband is, he is so tired of my ex's garbage.... my husband believes that my ex still loves me and he does these things because this is the only way he can get time with me.... that always makes me laugh but who knows.... it's been 8 years... you would think we would be civil by now...
i will keep trying and keep doing what's best for my daughter...! i can't stop doing that! thank you!

[pattiewrites]

I'm glad that the session went well. I hope things get peaceful for you and your daughter. It sounds like your ex needs to put his foot down with the girl friend. Get over it or get out. Your daughter doesn't need to deal with her petty jealousies and neither do you.