[allybama]

The Situation:

Alex (DH) and I have competely opposing views on apologising. He is of the mind that if Kelsey does something wrong, that he makes her say "I'm sorry" and then it's all good again. I personally find this appalling for a number of reasons - 1) she doesn't mean it, 2) she learns that saying something she doesn't mean gets her out of trouble and 3) nothing restorative is accomplished. My method is if Kelsey say hits me, that instead of making her say she's sorry, even if she's not, that she has to check in with me...ask me if I am okay...and if I tell her I am not, then it is up to her to find a way to help make it better, whether that be a hug, a kiss, or by telling me she is sorry. Sometimes, when it's her cousins or friends, they tell her that nothing will make it better - and for me, that's okay. Sometimes when you hurt someone, there isn't anything you can do to make it better. It's something she needs to learn, in my opinion.

Alex thinks that's cruel. I think it instills kindness and compassion and empathy in our children. He thinks his way is the easiest - I think it's a cop out.

Have any of you had experience with reaching a happy medium on something like this? (I am really vehemently opposed to his way, by the way, and cannot see myself ever being able to do it. So I guess a compromise isn't really feasible.) I guess I am asking how I can make him see it my way! Haha! Any ideas?

[twinzplus3]

Honestly, I think you do more damage to your children than insisting he sees it your way than you would by making her say sorry when she doesn't really mean it. IMO, that's worth thinking about. The fighting that you describe between the two of you can't be that beneficial for your kids. Your kids will quickly--if they haven't already--learn that they can play you against each other. JMHO.

With that said, have you ever read parenting with love and logic? I actually haven't but it's come my way highly recommended several times. An example of a 'love and logic' method might be: Kelsey does something wrong. Say she hits you since that was your example. Hitting is a no-no, let's assume she already understands that it's not okay. So by hitting you she has 'zapped your energy' or whatever other term you want to use and to restore it, she must 'pay damages' by bringing you one of her toys--one that you'll accept. So you might not accept the ratty teddy bear if she hit you really hard but rather insist on her favorite doll. The point is, it's a punishment that will 'cost' her something.

[pattiewrites]

Personally I agree with your way of doing things. I didn't get from your post that you are actually fighting about it. We never fight or even discuss parenting decisions in front of our kids. We talk when they are asleep and reach a consensus. Usually he defers since I've "taken all the classes and read all the books."

Really, forcing an apology will only create a kid that will quickly learn to say whatever will shut mom and dad up. That concerns me because I feel like it is instilling dishonesty. We talk about what happened and how the other person feels in addition to a restorative step. Gradually they will learn empathy and actually feel sorry. Forcing an apology gets you a flip "sorry" with attitude that just ticks me off anyway and that makes the situation worse.

[mcmama]

I got more response out of my kids by not forcing an apology, but rather communicating that I expected one when they were ready. Sometimes they would say "yeah, sorry" and I would tell them they didn't mean it and I knew, so get calmed down and when they were ready, tell and SHOW me they were sorry.

When they would hit me or do something temper tantrumish, they got punished. I never asked for an apology. After punishment, they usually would apologize, and mean it. Punishment usually was "go to your room". Now that doesn't sound like much, but if you HAVE to go to your room and not do the fun thing everyone else was doing or finish (and win) the game or see how the movie turns out, it's a punishment. They lost something. As they got older, if they acted out and hurt someone, all I had to do was LOOK at them and they'd say "I know, I know!" and RUN upstairs to their room, sobbing.

I never forced an apology. They just found out that things were not as right as they should be without one. When they really did apologize from the bottom of their hearts, I always showed them some love. That is important. You can't unbreak eggs, but you can make omlets.

I posted in another thread some time ago about how I personally took my then 7 year old son out of a baseball game because he dissed the umpire. Most of the parents and the coach just wanted to let it go. Poor wittle kiddie, stwuck out, awww...give the kid a break.....

Nah. I sat him on a rock away from the game, and I told him he would go back in the game when he and I agreed he was ready. He sat there shouting "I'M NOT SORRY!". I just told him that he didn't have to say he was sorry, but that we just do not diss umpires like that, we respect them, even when they are blind. This is a tradition in baseball. And he certainly could not play good baseball being all angry and mean like this.

It took another inning, but he did calm down and rejoin the game. And of his own choice, he sullenly apologized to the umpire after the game. (I mean eyes downcast, toe kicking the dirt, muttering "uh..sorry I yelled those things at you.")The umpire was really shocked.

The kid is an athlete now in high school. Sportsmanship is absolutely central to his own personal core values. And he just stopped playing baseball last year in favor of track, which is a better sport for him, but is a diehard baseball fan. Hideki Matsui is one of his all time heros. Matsui is dependable and great, without the drama and bad behavior.

The purpose of disciplining our children is to teach them correct and civilized behavior, but it is also to build their character and values.

[mommy2067]

I agree with your way of approaching things Ally, in fact I did the same when my kids were little...Otherwise the "I'm sorry" is just a reflex...a "get out of trouble free card"...not a true and heartfelt response which is what a real "I'm sorry" needs to be...Now, when something happens b/w the kids and I, whatever the upset may be, the sorry perhaps doesn't come instantaneously, but it does come...even if it is much later and it is truly meant!!! Keep on doing what you are doing and hopefully Alex will see the fruits of your labour...the way to make lasting progress and a difference always takes more time and effort....the easy way is just that...and the results are short lived!!!

[MommyDee]

I think the thing to remember is that sometimes kids just don't realize what they've done wrong -- or more particularly, why it's wrong -- and need us to tell them specifically. It's also up to us to provide guidance as to how they should make up for it.

With DS, we tell him we think he should say he's sorry, and explain why. Sometimes he apologizes right away, other times he refuses and sulks for a while first. When he does say it, we ask him if he knows why we were upset; he usually does and explains it back to us. If he says he doesn't know, we explain it again, and he usually apologizes again after that without being asked lol. He really does seem to get it. We'll also tell him if he should give a hug or kiss, or something else he should do depending on the situation, to make up for it. We make sure that he understands that there was a good reason for us to be upset and to want an apology. We want him to realize that you have to apologize and atone for it when you do something wrong, but you have to understand what you did wrong first.

[MissyChrissy]

Oh my goodness. I had no idea there was so much to consider, weigh, and discuss.

I have to say-I'm GLAD because my girls are very compassionate, polite young ladies and you know what? I certainly didn't get into all this with them when they misbehaved...I was more like your dh's school of thought-except an apology itself wasn't enough if she hit me on purpose. It would be followed by time out. After which an explanation of how hitting hurts people-that's where the compassion lesson comes in.

I have the benefit of hindsight & the fact that they're currently teens...I know I didn't err in this department, and sometimes I think over-analyzing some of this stuff causes more harm than good. imo.

[mommy2067]

Originally Posted by MommyDee

I think the thing to remember is that sometimes kids just don't realize what they've done wrong -- or more particularly, why it's wrong -- and need us to tell them specifically. It's also up to us to provide guidance as to how they should make up for it.

With DS, we tell him we think he should say he's sorry, and explain why. Sometimes he apologizes right away, other times he refuses and sulks for a while first. When he does say it, we ask him if he knows why we were upset; he usually does and explains it back to us. If he says he doesn't know, we explain it again, and he usually apologizes again after that without being asked lol. He really does seem to get it. We'll also tell him if he should give a hug or kiss, or something else he should do depending on the situation, to make up for it. We make sure that he understands that there was a good reason for us to be upset and to want an apology. We want him to realize that you have to apologize and atone for it when you do something wrong, but you have to understand what you did wrong first.

I do agree with MommyDee in that they need to know what they have done wrong and that there are consequences for one's behaviour...Once that is implemented and there is some guidance for atoning then hopefully, as they get older, the apologies will come willingly (from the heart) and not need to be asked for...I also believe in admitting when I have done something wrong and that I am sorry for whatever....I think that is a good leading by example tool....Quite often apologies come after some down time, after walking away from a situation and giving time to collect thoughts, emotions, etc.

[etali]

I think punishment has to have meaning - be that 'go to your room', or 'now you can't have sweets when we go to the shops'. I think an apology should come too, but it should be meant - and not just a way to get a lesser punishment or something.

[Samual]

We normally explain why it was wrong and take a toy away, so far they have always apologised on their own accord, if they didn't mean it when they said sorry, I would ignore them until they did. If it's something small we just explain why they shouldn't do it, especially if it is the first time they have done something.