[babydawn]

I really liked a quote by Joseph Smith that was included in this month's Visiting Teaching message, found on page 51 in the December's Ensign. The title of this month's message is Rejoice in the Atonement of Jesus Christ. The quote goes as follows: "The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it. (History of the Church, 3:30)."

[Bar-Elohim]

Babydawn.....

Paul wrote to the christians in Rome a very important lesson. And it wasn't asking if they believed in the gospel, for they had, otherwise they wouldn't have been recognized as believers, but Chapter 8:4--14.... especially verse 9... However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him...

Paul also ran into some believers coming from Ephesus, in Acts 19. These believers had believed the gospel, but hadn't received the Spirit of Christ, never even heard about this, until Paul explained, laid hands on them, and they received and went forth prophesying and speaking in tongues.

Paul dealt in many of the new testament writings of the importance of receiving the Spirit, and the outward manifestations of the Spirit, for the individual, for the corporate body of Christ, and for others through the believer....

The whole purpose of Gods offer of salvation through His son, is for the purpose of conforming, transforming, and molding believers into the image of His Son... Romans 8:29.

And in order to be made like unto the Son, one needs the infilling of the Holy Spirit, just as He at the river Jordan after His water baptisim by John.....

Otherwise. A believer is left to his own willpower, and physical strength and fortitude to try and become more Christlike in character, word, and deed, which won't happen...

John 15:1-6 Depicts two branches that had been grafted into the Vine. One bearing fruit and being pruned to produce more fruit, and one not bearing any fruit, and near being cut off and thrown into the fire.. Please note, that both these branches were IN THE VINE. And the fruit of the VINE is the character, nature, and Spirit of Christ.

We also see in Matthew 8:12. 13:41; 22:13; .. many taken OUT OF THE KINGDOM. We also see many saying Lord, Lord, did we not, in your name, do....etc....And His reply?

Believing the gospel is entering the door, but one cannot walk in the kingdom of God, without the enablement of the Holy Spirit......

The Old testament has a picture of ones salvation, and the purpose receiving the Holy Spirit, in the story of the Tabernacle.

Once erected, then Moses took water and blood, and a hyssop branch and sprinkled the tabernacle and everything in it with the water and the blood. This was to sanctify the tabernacle. Once sanctified, then the cloud of His presence descended and filled the tabernacle. So filled was the tabernacle that one couldn't see the tabernacle, only the cloud that covered it...

This is a foreshadowing of a believer hearing and receiveing the gospel, (water & blood) thereby his body/tabernacle/tent, is sanctified ready for the infilling of the Holy Spirit. The work of the Holy spirit is to so fill the believer, that he/they are no longer seen but only the Spirit of Christ... " No longer I, but thee!" Is still the cry...

Sincerely
Bar-Elohim.

[babydawn]

The fourth Article of Faith (which is basically a summary of what we believe in a nutshell) states:

"We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost."

[Bar-Elohim]

Originally Posted by babydawn

The fourth Article of Faith (which is basically a summary of what we believe in a nutshell) states:

"We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Mark 16:15,16,17,18......he who has believed and has been baptized (in the spirit), shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who have believed; In My Name, they will cast out demons, speak with new tongues........etc..... vs 20. and the Lord (spirit) worked with them, and confirmed the word by the signs that followed.

One may believe the fairest of things, even the truth of things, but when they walk in that which they profess, then the proof is truly in the pudding.

This water baptisim for the remission of sins, sounds as if the water is the vehicle of eradication for sins, when it is the blood that washes one clean from sin. Is that not the case?

Sincerely
Bar-Elohim.

[babydawn]

I am happy to share with you (and anyone else) what I believe, however, I refuse to debate it with you.

[heritagemom]

Good call babydawn. Sharing one's point of view and religious beliefs here is encouraged, but trying to prove another wrong in what they believe is NOT. Two people can argue the meaning of one sentence until they breathe their last breath and one or both can still be wrong. The saddest part is not who wins or loses, but the time lost in a debate that changes nothing.

[Bar-Elohim]

Originally Posted by heritagemom

Good call babydawn. Sharing one's point of view and religious beliefs here is encouraged, but trying to prove another wrong in what they believe is NOT. Two people can argue the meaning of one sentence until they breathe their last breath and one or both can still be wrong. The saddest part is not who wins or loses, but the time lost in a debate that changes nothing.

Hmmm, since we who are called, are to be of one mind, and one accord, this simply does not fly. And since we are also called to have the mind of Christ, and I don't think He is double minded, again we are called to be of the same mind and thought as He.

Surely ones convictions, if true, are able to be defined, analized, and scructinized, and able to withstand any testing, without being offended. Wouldn't you agree? Years ago a wise man once said, " you never have to fear someone who seeks to check your foundation, but the one who doesn't and says all is well!"

Sincerely
In Christ
Bar-Elohim.

[heritagemom]

A wiser man said that one with a beam in his eye can hardly pick out a mote in his brother's.

[Tsunshine]

I like that quote as well. Many people believe that we aren't Christians. That quote states that the foundation of our belif is Christ and without him and the testimony of the prophets and apostles are church would be nothing.
Also baptism is an outward sign of accepting Christ and being washed clean through his Atonement. Now it is up to each individual person to continue to apply the power of the Atonement in their lives. Even the Savior was baptized to show us the way.
Also debating does not convince anyone of anything. Only the Spirit of God has power to change people. So debating a topic actually accomplishes nothing, because it drives the Spirit away. We believe that we have found the truth and you are free to believe that you have.

[cocotbo]

Originally Posted by babydawn

The quote goes as follows: "The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it. (History of the Church, 3:30)."

Well, that certainly makes it all very simple to accept. I hardly see how any Christians could debate that in good conscience.