[AFNTE342]

<http://www.equip.org/atf/cf/%7B9C4EE...%7D/JAH050.PDF>

[mcmama]

Thank you for linking, so that we may read your position.

Having worked in child care centers where gay couples parented the most difficult children, I have to disagree. If they are good enough to adopt and foster the children who are born addicted to crack, with fetal alcohol syndrome, with serious behavioral disorders, then they are good enough to adopt the more desireable children too.

My daughter in law is the daughter of a lesbian. She and my son have a happy marriage. Gay people can indeed raise well adjusted children. When there are problems in the family that have nothing to do with the parents being gay, children sometimes feel as though maybe they should not speak up to counselors, advisors, pastors, etc, for fear of their parents being condemned for being gay - or for fear of harrassment.

Rather than advocate for gay people NOT having the right to adopt children, I wish more Christians would support every member of our families - the gay, the straight, the child, the straight spouse who did not know they were marrying a gay person - to live the truth, and not be impeded to speak the truth of all our families.

No agenda - our families are among all Christian organizations.

Oppressing responsible parents? BAD FOR KIDS!!!!

[Samual]

oooo someones feeling oppressed and getting a little angry i see

[pattiewrites]

Well, I'm no expert, but I think having kids grow up bounced from foster home to home, only to be alone in the world, with no family connections when they reach "maturity" is far worse for kids than growing up with two same sex parents who love them, provide for their needs and offer financial and emotional support.

[mcmama]

Sam, sometimes you just crack me up!!!

[Samual]

Afn I mean obviously if you compared a gay and straight parenting couple with the same parenting styles, the straight couple is better for the child, but it doesn't always mean that the gay couple is bad for the child. Clearly some people shouldn't be parents, but thats not always related to sexuality unless a gay person expected their children to be gay also, which should never happen.
Obviously I'm going to be biased, but our oldest son Mikey even though he was only 7 months old when he was taken away from his parents, was beaten alot by them, to the point where you cannot shout around him and you have to still be careful about raising your hands near him as he has learnt that it means someone is going to hit him, to still know that from 7 months old, is pretty shocking. Then Jamie and Pippa were both taken away at birth due to abuse subjected to their older siblings. But then gay people abuse children too, its not the sexuality that causes someone to be abusive, or bad parents, surely if that were the case we wouldn't have children in care as they would have straight parents, with a few having one straight parent. Yet there are millions of children in care and thousands killed before they can be removed from their parents.
Though where adoption an fostering is concerned there are stricter rules for gay people, which I do agree with as they concern things about telling the child being straight is the norm and gay isn't, which a child should know as the idea is to rehabilitate the child, not do your best to confuse them.
I don't understand the whole, if the parents are gay the children will be gay, erm most people come from and are raised by straight parents, catch my drift?

[LeanyBean]

IMO people should be able to adopt regardless of their sexuality or race or religion, etc., etc. After all isn't adoption all about betterment for the child not the world's perception of the parent(s)? I'm not saying that there shouldn't be any standards or requirements for adoption. Potential adoptive parents should be interviewed to weed out abusers but that should be it. All in the best interests of the child, right? Too many children need loving and stable homes and too few parents have the ability to adopt.
We must remember this article was written from a religious standpoint. A religion that views homosexuality as a Hell-worthy sin, but that is a topic for a whole other debate.

[mcmama]

What ticks me, as the ex wife of a closeted gay man, who raised his children, and the mother in law of a girl whose mom is a lesbian - I AM A CHRISTIAN. I see LOTS of money being directed at keeping gays from marrying and adopting, and ABSOLUTELY NO RESPONSE in congregations to the needs of straight spouses and children from mixed orientation marriages to adjust to the realities of life and go forward in a positive way and heal. No, liberal or conservative, we're not supposed to talk about this - unless it fuels someone else's agenda, which has nothing to do with our needs.

Yet it's important to defeat or pass prop 8, and spend lots of money on it - but not important to develop resources for Christian counselors to learn about the realities of our lives, our issues, our families.

I have spoken with a number of clergy in different denominations about this - many are open to learning more, because the frustration for them is they have no idea what is going on with families like mine was, and they WANT to minister - but so often the folks just leave, thinking they cannot talk about it, or that no one cares.

So you would think the money would be going to teaching clergy and lay leaders to actually MINISTER to ALL of us - but it doesn't.

Then there is the pain of straight spouses of gay people who are devout members of the churches that have spearheaded (and I do mean spear) these initiatives to keep gays from marrying or adopting - but find that their churches are more concerned with restricting gay people from behaving like NORMAL people than with ministering to their individual families.

WE ARE IN YOUR CONGREGATIONS WHETHER YOU KNOW IT OR NOT. DEAL WITH IT.

When you do, then maybe we can talk about what gays should and should not do in a Christian context. But first. ADMIT THAT WE STRAIGHT HUSBANDS, WIVES, and CHILDREN of CLOSETED GAY PEOPLE ARE A PART OF YOUR NEAT LITTLE WORLD.

[LeanyBean]

You are absolutely right, Janet.

[Samual]

I don't understand why certain Vicars will preach, but then either cannot offer help until someone comes with a problem they haven't faced before, or when they flat out refuse to even consider it. It's like they discuss they problems, but then when they are face to face to someone with the problem, they don't want to know anymore. You would of thought they woul be doing everything they could to ensure that it didn't lead anyone to doubt their religion and faith.

I mean the only way I can see over coming it in one church would be to request to do a speach yourself, but it shouldn't come to that you should be able to approact any vicar and have faith that he/she would talk about it to the congregation themselves. Hopefully things will change and vicars will be there for their congregation no matter what.