[wanttobemommy]

My poor ex SIL sent me and my other SIL to go pick up her kids from visitation. The father only has visitation rights he has no custody what so ever. The mother has sole leagal and physical custody of her three kids. Ages 4,3,2. We called the cops like the order says to and the cops wont do anything. Mom doesnt get off of work for another hour and the kids were banging on the windows BEGGING us to come in and get them. The cops wont do anything since the children did not appear to be in any physical harm. Today wasnt even his scheduled visitation day but the mom allowed him to have the kids since it was the youngests birthday yesterday. The father has multiple assult charges and is a raging alcoholic. Since the father was not in violation of his 24/7 program the cops wont assist in us getting the children. The father told the cops that he MIGHT give the kids to thier mother when she gets off of work. The father WAS under investigation from CPS for sexual assult but since his mom (aka Monster in Law) was hiding him from the police and CPS the investigation closed. What can my SIL do about her kids. They are in danger with him since he is now worked up. He is already in contempt (procedings are being filed on monday) for failure to pay child support. He was ordered to pay support starting December and the amount was 500 a month. He was also supposed to be paying for child care and health insurance. What can my SIL do. He called her at work and said he has no intention of giving her, her children.

[JeanLynn81]

Kristin, what state has jurisdiction right now?

[JeanLynn81]

The reason I ask, is because legally, what the father is doing is kidnapping the children. If paternity hasn't been established through the courts, then he has no legal basis to keep them,. The children have to be turned over to their mother.

I'm thinking if you google the state laws on this, you could find some information specific to dealing with the police. They do need to intervene.

[mcmama]

If she has sole custody, then she has to get mean and cut off visitation. You have witnesses, a police report, and the kids themselves.

Visitation means visitation. Not lock the kids in the house to keep them away from their mom and just go on being an irresponsible playboy, fooling around, or working, (off the books of course) or doing whatever suits you.

She has to go back to court to get his visitation rights denied or supervised.

[mcmama]

As for the police, if the children are unsupervised and in danger, they need to intervene. In this case, intervention meant being there until wack job got home and was his arrogant self.

[wanttobemommy]

he is faking to be a loving father. We have had the cops out there twice. Here in Watertown SD we have no f'in rights what so ever. The cops said they can only intervene after midnight TOMORROW!!! He is not supposed to have these kids overnights. CPS and the COPS just dont freaking work with the Courts here. I am so upset. The last time he did this he sent the kids over 2 hours away without letting the mother know. We found out and went and got the kids. The father wasnt there so there was nothing anyone could do.

[pinball9818]

Visitation is indeed not always Visitation, explanation follows:
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Don't blame the police, they don't make judgements, they simply enforce court judgements. As harsh as it sounds, the mother's and childrens' wishes at the moment are not necessarily court-backed OR in the best interest of the children. The COURT needs to be called, not the POLICE. Indeed, the police can do NOTHING without a court document ordering them to do so, unless the children are in immediate physical danger.
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This includes violations of his custody agreement. I say Custody because that's exactly what it is. To compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges, what he has is indeed limited CUSTODY (which of course can be partial, temporary, supervised, or other.) Visitation, by the letter of the law, takes place in a location OTHER THAN the father's domicile. Visitation is the father "coming by for a while to see the kids." Limited custody is the father "keeping the kids for a day or two."
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The mother should call the court which covers her jurisdiction and explain the situation. The MOTHER has to be the one to do this, nobody other than an attorney can act on her behalf! Neither the court nor the police are going to do anything if someone other than the mother makes a complaint. No excuses, the mother needs to take time off work to do this if necessary. No employer is going to prevent her from doing this.
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Please be objective about the mother and the father both. There is no way that a sexual assault charge was dropped because the mother was hiding him. I'm sorry, but that just doesn't happen. You cannot simply hide from a serious crime and have the charges dropped due to this. As for the alledged alcohol abuse and assault charges, either the court does not know about these, or they have decided that they are not severe enough to be dangerous to the children. Whatever the case may be, again, the limit of enforcement action is determined by the court, and there is nothing that can be done about their final decisions.
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Please understand I am not taking sides here, I am simply stating the facts. What needs to happen is the courts need to re-examine the situation and update their ruling accordingly. They need to be informed about allegations of alcoholism or threats of assault.

[mcmama]

What state are you in where you can just "call the court"? When I got divorced in NJ, these infractions meant calling my lawyer, filing a motion, and waiting six or eight weeks, during which his attorney could file for a delay. The only thing that ultimately worked to end the "custody" abuse was to overturn the judges original ruling about 50-50 residential custody, and make it joint legal with him having scheduled visitation.

You can do this pro se, but it takes forever and when you're actually raising the kids, it's yet another fulltime job.

Kristin, if he has no custody whatsoever, was the visitation court ordered, or just that she thought it would be a good idea?

The cops in NJ could do nothing about my ex keeping the children longer and blocking their path when they tried to leave. You can have a copy of the order in hand, and they can do nothing. On one visit, my 13 year old was so frustrated he considered climbing out the upstairs window rather than confront his dad who would block him physically from leaving and bully him. If he'd gone out the second story window, the cops could have intervened. Glad he didn't. Also, whether or not the abuser pays child support, visitation may still be allowed. They don't take child support into consideration when ruling on visitation. Otherwise, some abusive custodial parents could really use that, and the kids, as punishment.

How many times "should" the mother take time off from work? Especially when a well moneyed and masterful abuser like mine can make this take years (the legal issues in my divorce which were all custody related took 4 miserable years to settle because of fathers rights, gay rights, abusers rights - and the so called "right of children to have two parents") It only ended after he dragged me to the appellate when I had done all you say - got the court to rule and he tried to overturn it - and he lost to his surprise.

The payoff for him was ruining me financially with all the litigation (a total of 5 attorneys and 3 mediators between us, and a host of court appointed evaluators for me and the kids) and having all that attention and pity for 4 solid years and now banking on whining about the injustice of it all. Also, the satisfaction of knowing that I was "unfit" because I could not hold onto a job at that time, due to constantly having to go to court and live under the threat of having him take away my kids and "let" me see them - ie do all the work at his bidding, like in our marriage. Despite this, my kids actually have a relationship with him - on the terms I originally was after - living with me, visiting him, joint legal. Now they're adults, and they have their own relationship with him - and if he doesn't like the way it is going, he cannot call his attorney anymore.

[pinball9818]

What an ordeal! Indeed, NJ, NY, and CA have the nation's "least friendly" child custody laws. The child must practically be beaten before those states will intervene. As with a lot of other issues, these states seem to be the leaders in offender protection. The problem is twofold: They are overly busy with similar issues, and they are also afraid to get too involved, which could open up litigation. New Jersey happens to treat child issues as civil matters, instead of criminal matters. Unless the child is physically harmed, it's treated as a civil matter. Which is the same as a financial lawsuit: Example: Even if the court orders you to recieve money from a defendant in a civil lawsuit, what can you do if they don't pay up? Sue them again? Unfortunately, the same is true with child custody issues.
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Most states have child issue hotlines and local telephone numbers or websites for child custody/child abuse situations. An attorney will be required in most situations, but I was speaking of measures to take if there is an immediate problem.
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Again, as harsh as it may sound, take off as much work as it takes. I understand the consequences of such. Unfortunately, it boils down to a statement of "nothing else to do." Child custody disputes are one of the nastiest situations that we can get ourselves into, and there are just no easy ways out. It's unfair. What happened to this man you loved? Why is he doing this to you and your children? What turned him from teriffic to awful? Unfortunately, in most cases, the women and children will never know.

[ruthann8]

My mom went through something similar to this. My father decided not to let us go home after a weekend visit. And the police wouldn't do anything. It was several MONTHS before we got to go home with our mom. Of course this was almost 25 years ago. Hopefully they have improved the laws a little concerning custody issues. I hope it works out!