[VinniesMommy]

I am RAVING mad right now...

I know people who adopted twins about a year or so ago. They are about 14 months old right now. A few months back, one of the twins fell asleep on the moms lap and his leg went limp and hit their dog and scared her, and she attacked him. The kid needed stitches in his face. This dog is NOT a nice dog. Not even a little bit. She's older, they have had her for awhile, but she still attacks THEM from time to time. So, they decided to separate the kids and the dog. They got a play yard type thing and set it up in the living room for the kids. It's really not that big, MAYBE 6 feet around and it has 2 bigger toy boxes in there. This is where the kids stay ALL day. They get fed in there, diapers changed in there. The only time they come out is bath and bed time. The dog has free run of the house. The twins are never allowed out unless someone is holding them, which is rare. Some one went over there for dinner and took one of the babies out to hold and without thinking, set him down on the floor and the mom FLIPPED out and stuck him back in the "cage". Recently, one "escaped" and got spanked and put back in, and now they decided to make a playroom upstairs and keep the door shut all day, and keep them locked in there.

This seems VERY wrong to me. They keep their kids locked up ALL day, but the dog, who is very nasty, runs free? They don't play outside, they are not allowed to explore. They stay in the confines of this "cage" type thing ALL day long!! Would this be considering abuse or neglect? I couldn't imagine keeping my kids locked up all day long. I think this is soooo wrong. And when people have said stuff to them, they get sooo mad that people would suggest locking up their dog or getting rid of it. I know people treat their pets like part of their families, but putting that animal in front of your kids in your list of importance?? I don't know... What do you all think??

[Magic_Mikki]

This is a crappy situation. I think it's horribly wrong, too! It seems like it could possibly be child neglect, but I'm not sure! Do you happen to know a social worker? If anything you could call Social Services, even if just to ask questions about it.

What a sad, sad situation. I feel so bad for those poor babies. They absolutely will NOT learn and grow properly in that environment.

[ruthann8]

It depends, but if it continues then most definitely. Safe areas are good for little ones, but to spend every waking moment in one small area is extreme especially as they get older. I have a feeling it really isn’t about the dog, I think they may be using the dog as an excuse. If they aren’t bonding with the twins I highly doubt they have bonded with the dog. It all seems weird; maybe they don’t understand how to be parents. I would contact social services and let them know the situation. They just may need a little guidance.


At Ellamae’s 4 month appointment my doctor suggested getting a play pen to keep her safe, not necessarily from a dog but from all the dangers of the house. I chose to make one room baby proof, our living room. She spent most of her play time in the living room. But we did go outside, to the park, etc, also. I’m not sure when I decided to remove the baby gate. I think it was around a year. I do have baby gate in one of the guest bedrooms & I put the cat’s things in it so he has a safe place of his own.

[purelegance]

if they lock them in the playroom -- yes absolutely no doubt about it. but if they're in the play yard, i'm not really sure. while it's not my version of parenting, i know back in the day kids were kept in their playpens/pack & play all the time. i'm sure if we keep this bumped up somebody will know!

[NavGabeShiJude]

It is definitely a form of child neglect and bordering on abuse! Children need to explore their environments and run around to truly grow. Keeping a child essentially caged at all times will affect their gross motor skills, their social skills and could affect their verbal skills due to a lack of interaction with speaking adults.
This reminds me of some of the orphans that are kept in cots all day everyday in third world orphanages. Though i am sure that it isn't quite as bad as that, it still definitely affects them and will continue to do so for years to come.
Locking them in a room IS a form of neglect and social services should definitely have a word with them.
I specialize in Early Childhood Education and I remember watching video's in development class about children that had not been properly taken care of in their formative years. It was truly sad.
Let us all pray that these parents will realize the error of their ways and see the children as people that need to be treated as such, and not objects that can be taken out at will and then put back away when they are not needed or wanted.

[wanna be a young mother]

I am going to play Devil's Advocate here for a min. (but anyone who knows me will know that I think people like this should be locked up!)

DCFC defines abuse/neglect as:

Child abuse is the mistreatment of a child under the age of 18 by a parent, caretaker, someone living in their home or someone who works with or around children. The mistreatment must cause injury or must put the child at risk of physical injury. Child abuse can be physical (such as burns or broken bones), sexual (such as fondling or incest) or emotional.


Reasons to call the hotline:
If you see someone hitting a child with an object.
If you see marks on a child's body that do not appear to have been caused by accident.
If a child tells you that he or she has been harmed by someone.
If a child appears to be undernourished, is dressed inappropriately for the weather, or is young and has been left alone.


So lets look at the whole picture here. Are the kids well dressed? Are they being feed? Are they left alone in an area that is not safe or at home alone?

Going by your comments I would guess they dont meet those standards. They are being taken care of just not "properly". Yes if they were to "lock" them in a room that is neglect but what is the difference bewteen child proofing a small room to play in or having a large play "area" to play in? Not much of a difference.

We child proofed our living room. It's the "safe zone". We have a baby gate to block off our kitchen and we keep the doors to the other rooms closed. So I guess in a way Nevy is "caged" in the living room (thing is I'm caged in here with her lol). She eats in the living room (well snacks anyway). The only time she leaves this room is to sleep or take a bath (we have a pretty small house). So I guess in a way some would see that as neglect if we are going by our own standards but I can tell you this my child is in no way abused or neglected. She is a spoiled brat and gets everything she wants. No we dont go outside to play much but that is b/c mom is exhausted from being pregnant with twins.

So I guess going by what DCFS says no they are not being abused at this time. Is there something wrong with their parenting?? Well maybe I guess that depends on how you look at it. Are they safe? Sure they cant get into anything but are they being loved? See thats the "gray" area. Love is not something DCFS can arrest someone for. So yes they may not be abused but they are not loved. I think they need to seek professional help in dealing with whatever bonding issues they are having. Being stuck in an area is ok as long as they have interaction and are being cared for.

Personally I think it is wrong to use a play yard or even a play pen for more than an hour or two a day and yes personally I do think it is neglect on a certain level but unless they are truly being harmed DCFS wont step in. My advice is try talking to the parents and seeing if they understand what it really means to be a parent. If you cant get through to them then I would keep a close eye on the kids and when they do step out of bounds (like locking them in a room) then I would call DCFS and file a complaint.

Nevy and our cat are best friends but she is very afraid of our dog (he's hyper and jumps on her to much). So the dog is stuck in the kitchen or outside. I would NEVER put an animal before my child but some people do see animals as family. Weird but to each his own I guess.

[VinniesMommy]

Thank you for all of your advice. I found out today that they have early intervention coming out for the twins, when they were adopted they found out that the birth mom did drugs while pregnant with them, so EI is suppose to come out and make sure all is well with their learning abilities... If they feel what they are doing is wrong, then they will call it in. These people are my family, and my mom, grandmother, grandfather and uncle have ALL tried to talk to them, and they just get yelled at. They have a LOT of problems parenting. I'm not saying that I'm a perfect parent, but the mom is terrible. Their house is TRASHED, she never cleans. I mean, I went there a a couple weeks ago, and there was stuff EVERYWHERE. I had to kick things aside to walk. Having kids means your house doesn't stay as prim and proper as before, but this was a disaster zone. She has a "favorite" twin that she cuddles and babies more, and barely bothers with the other. When they get presents (birthday, christmas, etc) she chooses her favorite and gives it to the favorite twin. :shakes head: These people need help It makes me sad. If things keep getting worse, I'm not against calling social services. I just wanted to ask what others thought about this. Thank you for all of the advice.

[Magic_Mikki]

The Minnesota Statute (although I know this case is not in Minnesota, but I don't know PA's statute.. You're in PA, right Nicole?) is really long and detailed, but the part that does most definately fit this case is if a caretaker willfully deprives the child of necessary things, and that includes mental health, as well. Also, a parent endangers the child by willfully putting the child in situations that endanger the child physically, emotionally, or mentally.

There is no doubt that this kind of parenting would physically endanger (by locking babies in the room alone, or in the play pen so that they end up with physical delays), emotionally endanger (by not having the personal stimulation and human contact that babies need at this age) and mentally endanger (by depriving the babies of growing and learning and feeling safe with mom and dad) the babies.

Of course, we don't know the whole story and are only going by Nicole's post, but to me, if this were in MN, I would definately think it was at least neglect.

[NavGabeShiJude]

Magic_Mikki: I totally agree with you! I just wish that the law didn't have to state that they can't do anything until something happens or it gets worse.
You would think that the law would want to step in before it gets worse! Just my twisted mommy logic I suppose!

[QueenAngie]

Yes, child protection does need to step-in and assist these parents.
Locking 2 small children in their bedroom is not appropriate.
Where is their socialization?
Where is the bonding?

You can call anomymously!