[beth]

Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD) should not be confused with the more familiar Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD). By contrast, OCPD is a much more pervasive set of behaviors that define the sufferer's personality. Typical symptoms include the presence of a set routine which must be followed on a daily basis. Detours from that routine, such as a car that won't start or the arrival of a new baby can cause enormous distress to the sufferer. There is also a characteristic attention to detail in most tasks such that the actual task seldom gets finished, or even started. Overplanning and intense micromanagement of every activty is common, and therefore it can take hours to do a task that would take another person perhaps 30 minutes. Hoarding is also common, as is a reluctance to spend money.Personal relationships are very difficult to maintain. For more information on the disorder, you can read more here.

[mcmama]

OK Beth, you didn't by chance meet my ex husband did you?

Question: Is OCPD co present with Narcissistic PD? Because that's him all over.

Total inflexibility. You would think that his meticulousness would mean a neat person, but he's such a dangerous hoarder. Collections. Some have value. Books. Some have value. Some he thinks are valuable and they are not. And paper. Paper paper paper. Newspapers piled floor to ceiling, lining the hallway. When we had a woodburning stove, he hoarded firewood - not nicely chopped into manageable stackable size, but bummy discarded furniture, shipping crates, and large trunks of trees. In the living room.

Yet unable to deal with change. To keep our divorce under his control, he insisted on 50 50 physical custody of the kids. It was a nightmare. The burden was all on me. He became possessive of their homework (So I wouldn't ruin it). When a judge overturned the joint physical custody a year later, he took it to the appellate. He lost. He had the relationship all down to a mathematical formula which divided time around his work schedule. The fact that it was unworkable for the family was irrelevant to him.

His employer changed his dental insurance recently. He is unable to cope or explain new procedures. Yet the information is very easily accessible on the web. But the web is a new thing - he prefers to play telephone tag with benefits admins, without a cell phone, of course - because that is new and expensive too. Still has rotary phones for the most part. He's hoarded those too.

He has a collection of about 2,000 lps. And reel to reel tapes. He refused for the longest time to get a cd player, because he wasn't going to replace all that vinyl, and just knew that this computerized stuff wouldn't last. Same idea with videos. He started buying and hoarding videos - some academic, but mostly old movies, some of which he never watched and weren't particularly good - he had to possess them. And now with DVD, he won't switch. Whatever value he sees in these things seems to be challenged when new technology replaces older stuff.

When I saw the movie "Shine" (1996) about pianist David Hefgott's mental illness, I recognized my ex husband - the father in the movie is very much like him. I recall that he saw the movie when it first came out and came home and was deeply disturbed by it.

All of this is tied up neatly by his sexual attraction to men - which he refuses to acknowledge or discuss. Yet the videos he "collects" feature sexual activity which shows no women.

This month, our oldest son is getting married, the youngest is graduating high school and going into the military, and I am moving. He just can't seem to keep up with it, and no one is humoring him anymore.

What happens to people like this when they age and their family has moved on?

[beth]

No, Janet, I haven't met your husband but I've met plenty like him! Yes, it is possible to have co-morbidity ie. two disorders running in tandem. You have certainly described many OCPD traits but of course he needs to fulfill the appropriate DSM IV-TR criteria to be diagnosed properly. The narcissism may be disguised by the OCPD or he may also exhibit full narcissitic tendencies as per the DSM -IV. As these people age, the tendencies get worse, that is why it is so important to seek treatment as early in life as possible. With narcissistic personality disorder, this can be difficult because narcissists are psychologically unable to admit they are imperfect in any way - it is too painful. This may be part of the problem in admitting homosexual tendencies - he sees it as a fault. Personality disorders usually manifest in the early 20s and they cause untold pain to family members when the disorder is severe. Some cases are milder than others and cause proprtioanlly less distress. Your ex will find life increasingly difficult as he tries to bend the world to his mold even more as he ages. Hope this helps. Beth

Originally Posted by mcmama

OK Beth, you didn't by chance meet my ex husband did you?

Question: Is OCPD co present with Narcissistic PD? Because that's him all over.

Total inflexibility. You would think that his meticulousness would mean a neat person, but he's such a dangerous hoarder. Collections. Some have value. Books. Some have value. Some he thinks are valuable and they are not. And paper. Paper paper paper. Newspapers piled floor to ceiling, lining the hallway. When we had a woodburning stove, he hoarded firewood - not nicely chopped into manageable stackable size, but bummy discarded furniture, shipping crates, and large trunks of trees. In the living room.

Yet unable to deal with change. To keep our divorce under his control, he insisted on 50 50 physical custody of the kids. It was a nightmare. The burden was all on me. He became possessive of their homework (So I wouldn't ruin it). When a judge overturned the joint physical custody a year later, he took it to the appellate. He lost. He had the relationship all down to a mathematical formula which divided time around his work schedule. The fact that it was unworkable for the family was irrelevant to him.

His employer changed his dental insurance recently. He is unable to cope or explain new procedures. Yet the information is very easily accessible on the web. But the web is a new thing - he prefers to play telephone tag with benefits admins, without a cell phone, of course - because that is new and expensive too. Still has rotary phones for the most part. He's hoarded those too.

He has a collection of about 2,000 lps. And reel to reel tapes. He refused for the longest time to get a cd player, because he wasn't going to replace all that vinyl, and just knew that this computerized stuff wouldn't last. Same idea with videos. He started buying and hoarding videos - some academic, but mostly old movies, some of which he never watched and weren't particularly good - he had to possess them. And now with DVD, he won't switch. Whatever value he sees in these things seems to be challenged when new technology replaces older stuff.

When I saw the movie "Shine" (1996) about pianist David Hefgott's mental illness, I recognized my ex husband - the father in the movie is very much like him. I recall that he saw the movie when it first came out and came home and was deeply disturbed by it.

All of this is tied up neatly by his sexual attraction to men - which he refuses to acknowledge or discuss. Yet the videos he "collects" feature sexual activity which shows no women.

This month, our oldest son is getting married, the youngest is graduating high school and going into the military, and I am moving. He just can't seem to keep up with it, and no one is humoring him anymore.

What happens to people like this when they age and their family has moved on?

[mcmama]

Well, whatever he does now, it is not my concern. I just hope he can keep it together for the wedding and the youngest reporting for duty at the end of June.

Really, for YEARS I tried to get him help, and no one seemed to recognize that this is a disorder with DSM-IV criteria. It was all about anxiety and depression. I guess that all depressed men show up at psychiatrists offices with wives who talk about their hoarding, their miserliness, and their control issues. Yeah, its just all situational, a rough patch. He's your problem honey, take him home and give him a pill.

After June, there is nobody to take him home. The kids will be off on their own. I haven't taken him home for many years, since when we divorced he stalked me and tried to take the kids away.

[beth]

Oh yes, it's a disorder all right, perhaps he was a bit coy about revealing all to the psychiatrist. Plus when it comes from the spouse (especially if that spouse is a female) it can sometimes be dismissed as well.
It sounds like you've had a dreadful time but have been able to dissociate yourself from it as much as possible. Not easy when you have children in common, I know. It is up to him now - how he lives and his quality of life depends on him. At least you know you did all you could. Therapy only works if you have a willing client.

Originally Posted by mcmama

Well, whatever he does now, it is not my concern. I just hope he can keep it together for the wedding and the youngest reporting for duty at the end of June.

Really, for YEARS I tried to get him help, and no one seemed to recognize that this is a disorder with DSM-IV criteria. It was all about anxiety and depression. I guess that all depressed men show up at psychiatrists offices with wives who talk about their hoarding, their miserliness, and their control issues. Yeah, its just all situational, a rough patch. He's your problem honey, take him home and give him a pill.

After June, there is nobody to take him home. The kids will be off on their own. I haven't taken him home for many years, since when we divorced he stalked me and tried to take the kids away.

[kimbiqua]

Hi,
My husband is a licensed psychologist who is self-admittedly OCPD, mildly, without the moral, social or financial issues. Mostly time, decision, rules and hoarding. He is not off the charts, but more difficult to live with in stressful times. We are there now, with job hunting, economy, potential new baby and potential move. A stresser for anyone, let alone him. Problem is, no matter how hard I try to clean up and do things he wants, there is always something left for him to pick on. My point was to him that if I improve from 70% to 90%, I get no credit, because the 10% is still there.

So, 2 questions: This decidedly intellectual man - any suggestions on how best to broach the subject in a way he will be more receptive to? To acknowledge his excessive needs and desires is to essentially give them up as unattainable - how stressful is that?

Also, learning about the avoidant behavior has been insightful. He finally got his Ph.D., a wonderful accomplishment, but the years it took... I understand how fixing the minutae relieves the stress of the overwhelming tasks that loom. Have you experienced many OCPD who get lost in porn? I'm afraid that is happening, too.

thanks for your thoughts.

[beth]

Hi,
As a psychologist, he must be open to the benefits of therapy. Has he had any professional advice concerning his problem? He would probably work better with a therapist than with you, as working with family has inbuilt biases. Ask him woul dhe consider therapy. Best wishes, Beth

Originally Posted by kimbiqua

Hi,
My husband is a licensed psychologist who is self-admittedly OCPD, mildly, without the moral, social or financial issues. Mostly time, decision, rules and hoarding. He is not off the charts, but more difficult to live with in stressful times. We are there now, with job hunting, economy, potential new baby and potential move. A stresser for anyone, let alone him. Problem is, no matter how hard I try to clean up and do things he wants, there is always something left for him to pick on. My point was to him that if I improve from 70% to 90%, I get no credit, because the 10% is still there.

So, 2 questions: This decidedly intellectual man - any suggestions on how best to broach the subject in a way he will be more receptive to? To acknowledge his excessive needs and desires is to essentially give them up as unattainable - how stressful is that?

Also, learning about the avoidant behavior has been insightful. He finally got his Ph.D., a wonderful accomplishment, but the years it took... I understand how fixing the minutae relieves the stress of the overwhelming tasks that loom. Have you experienced many OCPD who get lost in porn? I'm afraid that is happening, too.

thanks for your thoughts.