[khanna]

My daughter "Sue" and her boyfriend "John" are in college and have been living together for 1-1/2 yrs. They live about 400 miles away. John seems like a nice guy, but we still barely know him. He has a very low self-esteem and does not lend much of himself in interacting with our family. Although we have always been kind, welcomed each other into our respective homes, he is often withdrawn and solitary. Sue says when they graduate in 2 yrs they plan on getting married. However, there has been no proposal or engagement ring. In the meantime, she strongly insists that we treat him as a part of the family. ie pay his airfare when we pay for hers to come home and include him in an upcoming family portrait.
My daughter is increasing upset that we do not coddle him and take continued initiative to try to draw him out of his shell. She says it took her years to get him to completely trust her and we need to continue to work on him. It's sad for me to think that she has had to work so hard to develop this relationship.
I think it's the old fashion value that I feel... if he wants to marry my daughter, that he should also have to make some effort. Talk is cheap. He should propose, get an engagement ring (cost doesn't matter) and make an effort to participate with our family. Not just expect that we treat him the same way and do the same things for him that we do for our daughter. AM I WRONG??

[heritagemom]

khanna,

As I read your post, I don't think it's so much that you don't want to include this young man in your family, as it is the warning bells going off in your head about this young man. You can see a very unhealthy relationship between them and your gut instinct is not to encourage or support this relationship unless you KNOW it's going to remain forever (as in them getting married etc) and that it is truly a GOOD thing for your daughter. Am I right in assuming that if this young man was a good student, a hard worker, and was simply buried in exams etc and could not come up with the money to travel to your home to visit, that you would eagerly arrange for his airfare or include him in the photos IF he was engaged to your daughter and you KNEW he would be in all the pictures in the future? I think that while you love your daughter and want to see her, that you expect this young man, if he's not married to your daughter, to be able to carry his own weight, pay his own airfare, and act as if he INTENDS to be a part of your family for the long term.

I would totally agree with you there. If this young man is going to marry and support your daughter in the future, then he should be making an effort to support himself at least for now and also your daughter and that he should be making an effort to get to know and trust your family etc. Living at a distance, there is no way for him to develop this "trust" he seems to have an issue with and he seems quite content to allow your daughter to take care of things in that area. I would resent feeling "obligated" to do anything for someone who wasn't interested in building a real relationship with our family, couldn't afford to pay his own way to visit us if he felt prompted to do so, and I had no proof that he was ever GOING to make being a member of our family official.

What concerns me the most is that your daughter is obviously attached to a man who for whatEVER reasons, is NOT trusting, friendly, or open...and that is just not a healthy thing. There's a big difference between just being shy or quiet and being ANTIsocial. And while this young man might seem "nice" etc and your daughter loves him, your parental sirens are blaring because there is so much that COULD go wrong with someone like this, that it's hard to invest financially OR emotionally in their relationship knowing that.

Go with your instincts. If you feel strangely about things your daughter wants you to do, explain to her WHY. You have a right to feel what you feel, and to say no. It's not unloving or selfish to do that. It's a LOT selfish and unloving for your daughter to make you feel guilty because of your sincere apprehensions. She is in for a lifetime of heartache if she has to constantly be the "patch" between her family and him.

[beth]

It's possible your daughter's boyfriend is suffering from social phobia, and thus it would be extremely difficult for him to make real contact with you and your husband, especially when you live so far away. You can read up on social phobia by clicking on the Mental Health link below, particulary the diagnostic criteria for the condition. Because you don't see him much, it may be difficult for you to even decide that he has social phobia. Many social phobics are the sweetest people but don't come across well in many social situations.

However, I am a bit concerned about his readiness to accept you paying for airfares and not acknowledging it. Also your daughter is somehat unreasonable about you paying for this as well. Perhaps it's time to have some quality one-on-one chats with your daughter. Tell her it's hard for you to be enthusiastic about her partner when you feel you hardly know him. See how it goes from there, but things can't stay as they are. No winners here.

[MJ7]

I agree Beth. I think the dd is being unreasonable suggesting her mom pay his airfare period. If mom wants to pay for either of them, that is a gift, not a right. Certainly she's not required to do so for a man that is not officially engaged to her dd.

My dh had social anxiety and came across as a bit withdrawn. He is also shy which some though (including myself) he was a bit stuck up. But he is different now thanks to treatment.

[beth]

Originally Posted by MJ7

I agree Beth. I think the dd is being unreasonable suggesting her mom pay his airfare period. If mom wants to pay for either of them, that is a gift, not a right. Certainly she's not required to do so for a man that is not officially engaged to her dd.

My dh had social anxiety and came across as a bit withdrawn. He is also shy which some though (including myself) he was a bit stuck up. But he is different now thanks to treatment.

I'm not even sure about fair paying even if they were egaged. And as you say, it is not a given. I hope this situation can be rectified.

MJ, I'm interested to know what medication your husband is on for his social phobia. You can send me a private message if you prefer. And if you prefer not to answer at all, that's ok too. Thanks, Beth

[writehandgirl]

The whole paying for airfares and wanting to be in the family portrait really doesn't mesh well with me. Especially since they are not officially engaged.

[seeemilywrite]

I would suggest you talk to your daughter abut this guy, one on one, without hm around.

What it sounds like to me... is that his family may be less than stellar...crappy even. I personally came from a rather absusive family situation growing up. When i went to college I had little to no financial support from my family, and lived in fear on visiting on holidays.

That said.

Since this guy is so reclusive, and it took him a "long time to trust her". I think he may from a similar situation. It takes me FOREVER to trust people. FOREVER.

He may not have a supporitive family to visit, which is why your daughter is trying to include him in yours, and allow him to feel like he is part of your family, which is obviously important for you.

I dont know what your financial situation is. She may not either. If they are in college neither one of them have a lot of $$, so that may be why she wants you to pay his way. She may not realize the burden. Let her know.

Coming from an abusing household....its probably a lot for him to even come to your family functions. Give him time. By coming, hes trying. It took me years to warm up to my boyfriends family. I would come over on Christmas, Thanksgiving...really every holiday and just sit there in silence because thought they hated me, and i felt like I was intruding. They loved me as it turns out, because my boyfriend had explained the situation to them. It sounds like your not a fan of John...dont think that he doesnt get the vibe. People know when they arnt liked.

My point with this long post.....ask your daughter about johns family background. It may shed a lot of light on the situation.

be happy they arn't rushing into marriage. Maybe they know they arn't emotionally mature enough to do that... I wuold be happy that they are talking about it, and arn't rushing into anything.

[MJ7]

Originally Posted by beth

MJ, I'm interested to know what medication your husband is on for his social phobia. You can send me a private message if you prefer. And if you prefer not to answer at all, that's ok too. Thanks, Beth

Hey Beth, I PM'd you.

[Blaith]

There is no reason why you should be paying for things for him. My dd is not old enough to have a boyfriend yet, but I can visualize myself in your place, and frankly I would have serious concerns about any "man" who thinks he's going to marry my daughter and yet relies so heavily on people for monetary things as well as social acceptance. It sounds like he is very immature, probably too immature and dependant on others. I'd side with you on this one.

[chio88]

Originally Posted by khanna

My daughter is increasing upset that we do not coddle him and take continued initiative to try to draw him out of his shell. She says it took her years to get him to completely trust her and we need to continue to work on him. It's sad for me to think that she has had to work so hard to develop this relationship.
I think it's the old fashion value that I feel... if he wants to marry my daughter, that he should also have to make some effort. Talk is cheap. He should propose, get an engagement ring (cost doesn't matter) and make an effort to participate with our family. Not just expect that we treat him the same way and do the same things for him that we do for our daughter. AM I WRONG??

If what you think is being old fashioned...well you can call me old fashioned too cause i feel the same way you feel.