[VinniesMommy]

Okay, I am fairly new here... I was on Snugglepie.com all the time, but I got a little confused with the change, and I didn't have much time to go on, so I am sorry for my absense, but I would like a little help, if you all don't mind?

My husband has a son with another woman. This woman would not let him see this child for 10 months. He finally cracked and went against her and filed for custody. She was not recieveing support all those months, but filed for support as soon as he filed for custody. He makes about $2000 a month. Now, I don't work and we have two children together and the court is trying to make him pay $600 a month. This girl has NO bills ((she lives with her parents and they pamper both her and the baby)) and a pretty decent paying job... I am not saying that my husband should not support his son, but we have 2 children that need to be supported as well... Apparently having 2 children and a stay at home wife makes your child support go up!! Is this fair? Or was he just fooled? I mean, she went from being happy with nothing as long as he didn't see the child, to getting him for all that she can, and then some, I feel. It doesn't make sense that one child gets to live the lavish life, while we are struggling to make ends meat here. Does anyone know how the Child Support system works?

[LeanyBean]

PA Child Support just sucks ***, honey. They do not put a cap on it how much can be taken and each case is different. If you think the cost is high now, pray he never become a special needs child. Also the support amount depends on both parents incomes and the current needs of the child. I gotta say it again though that PA sucks *** when it comes ot child support and taxes.

I used to live there. Born and raised actually (Eastern end of Lycoming County). I love the area and scenary and of course my family but I don't think I would ever move back there.

Congrats on being able to have a life with being a one-income household. PA is the roughest state for that.

[mcmama]

Can't be any worse for living than NJ, people are leaving NJ for PA in order to do the one income thing. Taxes, tolls, insurance. Crawl out of your grandparents basement and live in a palace on rolling acres for less money than it cost to eke out a subsistance here!

But NJ does have fairly clear guidelines for support and a system that works. They don't rob one child to support another, from what I have seen.

[Puffalapeno]

I feel your pain. DH has a son from a previous marriage. I guess we consider ourselves lucky that she filed with Domestic Relations before he was even out the door, so he didn't have to face being in arrears by too much. Unfortunately in PA they have a spiffy little calculator type way of figuring things out, put in father's income, put in mother's income, number gets spit out. We also have 2 children of our own and I don't work and I know it isn't easy. We get requests from her all the time for money so he can play football, soccer, birthday party, etc. We haven't taken a vacation in the 7 years that we've been together, but she goes every year. At least I can say now that she's living on her own and not with her family, but for most of the time that's where she lived. Since custody and child support are separate issues, she really could have taken him for support long ago and still kept him from seeing his child. That's what DH's ex did to him, got her child support and made him sue her in court for the right to see his son. We're still paying the lawyer for all of that.

Is it fair? Probably not, but it's the law in our fine Commonwealth. Keep your chin up, thank the Lord that she didn't get more and remember that he won't have to pay it forever. Keep your eyes on the light at the end of the tunnel. Good luck!!

[LeanyBean]

I never said Jersey was any better! I lived close enough to Jersey (Easton, PA) to know I wouldn't want to live there either.

[pattiewrites]

I think everything in PA is ridiculously expensive, houses, taxes and child support. I know someone who is paying $1500 per month for his three kids. He's a police officer and is barely able to make his own bills. The kicker is that he has the kids 4 days out of the week and is still paying that much money! The courts don't care how many other kids the father has when calculating support payments. The attitude is that they shouldn't have more if they can't afford it. I have another friend who got involved with a man with two kids with two different women. He pays a lot to each of them and that's basically what they told him. (to stop having kids) or get a second job.

[FrustratedCarol]

Is it not true that all people, not only in the state of PA, but in the entire United States have the same basic rights? Why, then, are men in the Lancaster County area, whose names start with a particular letter of the alphabet, denied those basic rights? Let me explain.
In January, 2006, my son was living with his wife. They had previously been separated for 8 months and had only been back together for about 2 ½ months. She applied for child support during this reconciliation. First of all, I don’t understand how a woman can apply for child support when her husband is still living with her, but, that aside, the marriage was doomed. On January 15, 2006, informed his wife that he was going to start looking for another place to live. On January 16, 2006, she left a voice mail message on his cell phone - "You’d better think about what you’re doing. You’re going to lose everything, everything. You’re going to lose your house, your Mustang parts, your son, YOU’RE GOING TO LOSE EVERYTHING!! and, you’re going to prison!!!! (There is nothing worse than a woman scorned, I can assure you.) I, personally, listened to this message several weeks later, copied it to a tape and sent it to his attorney, along with 26 other disturbing voice mail messages. Unfortunately, this particular tape was damaged in the mail and it could not be used in his defense.
On January 18, 2006 the wife told authorities that he had threatened her. Without any hesitation, he was called off of his job and was immediately arrested, even though he maintained his innocence of those charges, and remanded to jail to await his preliminary hearing. On March 27, 2006, on the advice of his attorney, he pleaded guilty to disorderly conduct.
On January 27, 2006 his child support hearing was held. Because he was in jail, he was not permitted to attend. Wasn’t this his right to attend? His child support was placed at $1670 per month!. For one child! (His net income, claiming Married, 5 dependants, was $627 per week.) Although a defendant has 10 days to appeal the decision, the notice of his right to appeal was sent to the address listed by his wife as his residence. The notice went to the marital home. He didn’t receive the notice until the 10 day appeal term was way over. Did she hold it until she was sure he wouldn’t be able to appeal? Who knows? If I were to place a wager, I would definitely say she did.
In March, 2006 I became full Power of Attorney for him so that I could pay his bills and take care of anything else of his where time was of the essence. At this time, I wrote to Domestic Relations, requesting that he be allowed to appeal the decision made in his absence, but in their letter back to me, they told me that his appeal term had expired. This exorbitant child support order was etched in stone.

In April, 2006, I contacted an attorney. I was told there was a possibility that we could appeal to the courts to take the case back to the beginning. Unfortunately, his last name begins with "D" and the judge assigned to this part of the alphabet is Judge Wayne Hummer. Although the attorney pleaded the case well, when she told the Judge she "didn’t want it to go back to the beginning because she didn’t want to lose all the money he owed her", Judge Hummer denied his appeal!
Because she originally said(1) he threatened her, (2) he was a drug and alcohol addict, had to complete a drug and alcohol course and an abuser’s course. On February 27, 2007, he was released, after 13 months of incarceration.
After 4 appeals to Judge Hummer, nothing changed. On January 27, 2007, I appeared, along with the attorney, before Judge Wayne Hummer. I produced 13 months worth of EBay sales for the wife. Those from January 2006 through December 31, 2006 added up to a total of $26,759 of unreported income. I kept track of her EBay sales each and every month. This, was in addition to her employment income of $27,000. She earned over $53,000 in 2006 alone!
We received the Judge’s ruling on March 7, 2007. The newest domestic relations is now $1264.83. (He said she earned $300 a month from Bay?) I have no idea where he came up with that figure, but, when I took math $26,759 divided by 12 months equaled $2,229.92.

My son earns $19 per hour for 40 hours per week, for a total of $39,520 a year.. In 2005, he claimed Married, 5 exemptions (himself, his wife, his son, and two stepsons) and had a net weekly income of approximately $627 per week. He went back to work the first Monday after his release. (His employers held his job for over 13 mos - which should tell you about his true character). His exemptions were changed to Single 1. He received his first paycheck on Wednesday, March 13, 2007. After working 40 hours a week, at $19 per hour, he brought home a whopping $250! So, while she earns $27,000 from her job, at least $27,000 from Ebay, and $16,952 a year from him for child support (an average of $70,692 per year) , he is expected to live at poverty level on $13,000 per year. All because his last name starts with a "D"????
My son is not the only one in Lancaster County who is being crucified because of their last name, however, he is the only one that I’m concerned about. It appears to be common knowledge that if you go before Judge Wayne Hummer, and you have a *****, you are doomed.
After sitting in jail for 13 months, all because of a deranged woman’s act of revenge, he has accrued over $20,000 in child support arrears. He had no income since he was placed there BEFORE the child support hearing, but Judge Wayne Hummer never took that into consideration. Although there was a new law passed, I believe in June 2006, regarding inmates, we were told this didn’t apply to him. Why??? No one ever told us why. All of his material things that he worked so hard for over the past 11 years are gone - she has given them away, sold them, or continues to hold them hostage.
He has been denied his basic rights by the Lancaster County Courts and Judge Wayne Hummer, from the very beginning of this nightmare. She had already convinced everyone that he did what she accused him of, he was denied his right to appeal by Domestic Relations (by sending the 10 day appeal letter to the marital home), had absolutely no income for 13 months. She committed perjury in two separate court hearings when she said she didn’t sell on Ebay, and when confronted with 13 months of detailed printouts from Ebay, lied. She changed her Ebay ID 4 times in an effort to confuse the courts. Judge Hummer ignored all the evidenced provided to him. Had another judge heard the case and seen the evidence, I’m positive that the results would have been entirely different.
She is still selling on Ebay.
I am 60 years old and have spent over $27,000 in legal fees this year, a substantial portion was for Domestic Relations hearings and appeals. I don’t have any more funds available to appeal to a higher court. But, this is clearly wrong! And, through all of this, there is a little six year old boy who has not seen or spoken to his daddy in over 14 months. Her accusations bar him from having any contact with her and emails to her, from me, requesting permission for him to see him have been absolutely fruitless. My son and grandson were joined at the hip since the baby’s birth, but he is not even a consideration in all of this. This is all about a woman who is out for blood and a judge who will deny anything to a father, no matter what the woman in front of him does.
What, if anything, can he do? He is no longer living in Lancaster County, but his child still lives here and the child support will always be through Lancaster County. His last name will always begin with the letter "D" and he will always have Judge Hummer to hear, and turn a deaf ear, on his pleas.
Lancaster County has crucified many fathers and denied them their basic rights by assigning those whose last names starting with the beginning of the alphabet, to Judge Wayne Hummer.

[mcmama]

Well, Carol, let me guess - you don't like this judge! I had a similiar feeling toward the judge in my case in NJ. It was a relief post judgement to go before a different judge and have a more family friendly outcome. It was not a relief to be dragged to the appellate, but at least it put an end to the expensive part of four years of constant wrangling and oppression. Sometimes I think the more manipulative you are, the better the outcome for you, which is a shame in divorce. The system can certainly be used by one parent to punish the other, and lawyers seem to abet this sometimes.

The amount of money your son is paying for one child seems excessive, I don't know how they calculate this. He is paying more for one child than my ex pays for two, and my ex makes a salary that is probably better than your son;s. So no, it does not seem fair at all.

I sell things on ebay - I have a friend who is a mechanic who sells cars on ebay. Ebay sales do not tell the whole story of income - there are expenses for listing and for power sellers these can add up. Also the cost of whatever goods are being sold.

Unfortunately I found that the appellate was very expensive - my ex dragged me there, and it is a lot of prep for the attorneys. You have to be prepared in going to the appellate that you could exhaust your money and still lose. Fortunately, although I went unwillingly, I did not lose. I am still paying it off six years later. I lost my retirement savings paying for the privilege of raising my sons. I receive child support, but it is really not enough to compensate for the loss of financial security, or the increased cost of living here in NJ.

I know that you are angry, and you feel very much the loss of your grandson. I don't know that there is too much else you can do, as it is really your son's fight, and he has this terrific burden as well as a new family. The pressure on them must be so terrible. He is lucky to have a mom who cares so much. I went through the ordeal without much family, as my parents are dead and my surviving aunt and brother died during the whole mess.

I have a friend who has been through the "yes you can see them no you can;t" thing with grandchildren. She finds that it is best to focus on communicating with the kids themselves, sending birthday cards, notes, presents (not expensive, just little dollar store thinking of you things) She never sends money, she sends books, small things, or for a big occasion, a gift card to a store that would only benefit the child, such as Kaybee or ToysRUs. Sometimes she is not sure it gets there, but sometimes it does. That puts the focus on your relationship with the child, rather than "I demand to see my grandchild, you, you, you ebay cheat you!" It also makes it possible for you to rebuild the future. And with the older grandchildren, sometimes they tell the adults "I want to see grandma!"

You are not that much older than me. You have to do something for yourself now, and pull back from all this frustration, or it will ruin you even more.

This really stinks, and you have my sympathy.

[siageah]

Carol, have you contacted the people who run this site?

http://5thestate.com/index.htm

They seem to have a lot about Judge Hummer on there. Maybe they can help you. And if it is any consolation it does appear the judge must retire this summer.

But beyond that the advice that McMama gave you was the best. Don't let it bring you down or you'll ruin your life as well.

Good luck to you and yours.

[FrustratedCarol]

Originally Posted by mcmama

Well, Carol, let me guess - you don't like this judge! I had a similiar feeling toward the judge in my case in NJ. It was a relief post judgement to go before a different judge and have a more family friendly outcome. It was not a relief to be dragged to the appellate, but at least it put an end to the expensive part of four years of constant wrangling and oppression. Sometimes I think the more manipulative you are, the better the outcome for you, which is a shame in divorce. The system can certainly be used by one parent to punish the other, and lawyers seem to abet this sometimes.

The amount of money your son is paying for one child seems excessive, I don't know how they calculate this. He is paying more for one child than my ex pays for two, and my ex makes a salary that is probably better than your son;s. So no, it does not seem fair at all.

I sell things on ebay - I have a friend who is a mechanic who sells cars on ebay. Ebay sales do not tell the whole story of income - there are expenses for listing and for power sellers these can add up. Also the cost of whatever goods are being sold.

Unfortunately I found that the appellate was very expensive - my ex dragged me there, and it is a lot of prep for the attorneys. You have to be prepared in going to the appellate that you could exhaust your money and still lose. Fortunately, although I went unwillingly, I did not lose. I am still paying it off six years later. I lost my retirement savings paying for the privilege of raising my sons. I receive child support, but it is really not enough to compensate for the loss of financial security, or the increased cost of living here in NJ.

I know that you are angry, and you feel very much the loss of your grandson. I don't know that there is too much else you can do, as it is really your son's fight, and he has this terrific burden as well as a new family. The pressure on them must be so terrible. He is lucky to have a mom who cares so much. I went through the ordeal without much family, as my parents are dead and my surviving aunt and brother died during the whole mess.

I have a friend who has been through the "yes you can see them no you can;t" thing with grandchildren. She finds that it is best to focus on communicating with the kids themselves, sending birthday cards, notes, presents (not expensive, just little dollar store thinking of you things) She never sends money, she sends books, small things, or for a big occasion, a gift card to a store that would only benefit the child, such as Kaybee or ToysRUs. Sometimes she is not sure it gets there, but sometimes it does. That puts the focus on your relationship with the child, rather than "I demand to see my grandchild, you, you, you ebay cheat you!" It also makes it possible for you to rebuild the future. And with the older grandchildren, sometimes they tell the adults "I want to see grandma!"

You are not that much older than me. You have to do something for yourself now, and pull back from all this frustration, or it will ruin you even more.

This really stinks, and you have my sympathy.

NO man likes this judge!! A woman can perjure herself in front of him and he doesn't do a thing except reward her.
But, luckily, he's off the bench in August. What a relief for all Lancaster County men whose names start with the beginning of the alphabet!!