[Marriedmamaof3]

I am new to this board(my first post), and am hoping for some help or advice.
I posted this on the abuse threads because of problems in our home that have become out of hand. I have to admit to having dealt with depression for a time, but I have fought long and hard to overcome that and have learned to do what I can and keep a positive outlook. Believe me, I have come very far from where I was a year ago.
I feel I have to admit to this, along with the fact that I have some medical problems that may have contributed to this problem(which have never been resolved), because I know it has caused much heartache and outright anger in my children. I have 3 daughters, ages 11, 14, and 17. The worst problems I've had are with my eldest daughter. The problems I've had didn't just begin when I became depressed, but started in much smaller ways years ago, when she was much younger. I never thought much of it, just childhood stubborness.
But in the past few years, which have included these times of depression, my eldest has been so angry-with outbursts that are unpredictable. Now, in spite of my best attempts at regaining the happy household that used to exist, I am always being belittled, hit, cursed at,etc. The shorter reason I am writing this is because of an incident that occured Thursday. On Wednesday, my 11 year old became very upset about some things my eldest had been saying to her. It was all I could do to get her to calm down and even be willing to say what she'd been told that had upset her so much. She informs me, after my making numerous guesses(and coming quite close), that her sister would tell her of ways she wanted to kill me- in detail. My youngest said she was very attached to me and her father and that these things bothered her and were making her feel messed up in her head-to hear her sister say such things. She wished she wouldn't tell her those things at all anymore. She told me before it all came out that the things she knew felt like they hurt her(emotionally), more than they would me.
My youngest has not been sleeping well at all, having horrible nightmares whenever she dreams-many of them about her father being gone or I being gone or one of us being killed. I had thought she was being affected by scary movies or shows and told her that maybe it would be best not to watch those anymore, that scary stories and movies are not always handled well by everyone. But now that this news has come to light, I can't help wonder if what her oldest sister has been saying to her is the cause(or at least part of it). We spoke about the issues concerning her sister and what she'd been saying to her and I had to ask some very hard questions. I asked her if she would feel sad and upset if her sister left home when she turns 18(this has been a constant"threat", of sorts), or if she would feel safe or relieved, glad? She wants her to leave. She fears her and what she might do.
When confronted with this information(without telling her how we heard about it, nor from whom), she exploded in anger, wanting to know who told us she'd said that and saying that she hadn't said that. In our room, with the door shut, is where we tried to talk to her. Her father asked her why she hated me so much and her response was that she wasn't going to listen to this anymore. She attempted to leave the room, and I blocked her exit, feeling this was not some small issue she should just walk out on. When she couldn't reach the doorknob before I, she tried hitting me, but I was(this time) able to grab her forearms before she could. When she slipped one out- she slammed her hand onto the mirror on the door. If I had not moved, it would have been my face.
In short, she wants to leave to go make it on her own somewhere else. Not when she turns 18 in 2and a half months, but now. I even asked her if I had any meaning or worth or value to her, with a cold reponse of no. Just the way she looked at me was a look of pure hatred and anger. (I have to admit, I had been crying as I was talking to her at this point). In spite of my problems with depression, I had been to the school numerous times over her grades and school problems, speaking with counselors, teachers, principles, vice principles, etc. trying to help her and find out why her grades were so bad. I had taken her to the doctor, then a couple of emergency visits to the hospital over a relationship with a boy that we later found out was psychotic(sp?)
Our relationship has been up and down through the years, not just since my bout of depression. At one point, her GPA was at 1.25. This is from a child who was an honor roll student all throughout middle school and was in the honor society and up for the "Who's Who" for all schools. I have tried being strict with her, tried the middle ground, and tried giving her the easy "let's be friends" while she pretty much got to go anywhere with her friends and do her own thing. By that point, I was truly tired of the arguments, the violent outbursts, holes in the walls, dents in the walls, broken items, and being hit(and trying to hit me), not to mention the numerous times I've been cursed at.
So Friday morning, after trying to get any advice I could from other trusted friends and family members(with no advice to give me-I don't blame them), I called the local DHHR and spoke with family services, explaining what was going on. They took down the information I gave them and said it would be referred to a caseworker this Monday. Friday night, my eldest daughter finally decided she wanted to talk to me. I had literally spent the entire night awake before that and had been up all day, trying to be vigilant over what she may do, as she was still angry and unresponsive-I gave her a wide berth. I was truly afraid she would realize who had told me what she had said(she had told my youngest she wanted to take a gun and shoot me in the head, that she would like to take a blanket and smother me to death, and that she wished I would die and that I were just dead), and really try to hurt my 11 yr. old. I have become used to her behaviour and have been used to trying to deal with it, but I will NOT allow her to harm her sisters just because they told me something she never wanted told.
She has always expected to have her way in everything, and we have many times given in to keep the peace. If she doesn't get to do or go what she wants, she makes life miserable for everyone in the home until she gets it. I know by giving her what she wants in the past has created this problem and I wish I had changed my stance on things long ago. But in everything, I felt I was trying to divert a war by giving her what she wanted. Not material goods, but freedoms to spend several nights in a row with friends, hanging out with friends I really didn't know. I guess I (and my husband) took the easy way out rather than taking a stand earlier on. My huge mistake.
Now she is all sorry, doesn't want to end up in a foster home(actually, she said she is NOT goint to one) and is telling me and her father that she just got mad(I've heard that one too many times"and that she would be fine with staying here to live until she's 18, if the fighting stops. She says it's the fighting her sisters do, the bickering and fussing, that makes her want to leave. I'm sorry, but sometimes those things are part of life with siblings. She's upset that I would think that she sits around thinking of ways to actually kill me. I don't know that she would actually do that, but just the anger and hatred you would have to have towards someone to think about WAYS to kill them seem to be pretty scary. I know that kids get mad and say stuff about wishing a parent would "drop dead" and not really mean it. But it's the personal knowledge of her temper and anger and the heights it sometimes can reach that make it feel like much more than just one angry outlet of feelings. Her total lack of respect, lack of goals, lack of even trying to get a summer job to earn money so she can save for a car and pay for insurance. She has nothing of her own to fall back on, no education, no desire for college, no job, no car, no willingness to even apply for work. She seems to expect that life is going to hand her some well paying job that will support her without her even having a high school diploma or a GED. Right now, if she left, she would be completely dependant on another person to take care of her.
Now Family Services are going to be involved, and that is going to involve both of my other children also. She will find out that it was her youngest sister that told us what we know and I fear for that. I felt I had nowhere else to turn and just couldn't deal with this on my own anymore. My 14 yr. old doesn't even know what all has happened, as she has spent the last week at my sisters doing some work around there property and house to earn some money to save. She has on occassion expressed anger and a desire to leave and not live here anymore. I don't know how she is going to feel about all of this. Right now, I feel as if my youngest child is the only one who wants or needs me. She is the only one who will do her chores, and even go beyond that just because she wants to.
My 2 youngest girls will accept a "no", if they ask to go somewhere or do something and we have good reason to say no. But my eldest never accepts no as an answer. It's just a subject of debate and arguments and fueled temper because she can't do or have things her own way. Most of the fighting around here is because she has refused to have any respect for our feelings or choices concerning her.
I know that my previous problems with depression have obviously affected my family. It seems that I went from being on top of everything, then one day the bottom dropped out for no reason I can figure out. I have done everything (as a housewife, mother, and homemaker) for everyone until that illness hit. Then it seemed that nobody could do anything. Then things built up, some of them still seemingly impossible to get done. I've repeatedly apologized for what happened to me, even though I didn't want it or choose it. I have tried to work my way back for a bit over a year now, with sporadic household help. Please understand, I am not at all trying to enlist childhood slave labor. But going back to having to do everything for everyone is something I know is beyond what I am physically and mentally capable of. All I have asked for is that they keep their rooms clean(which I used to do for them every day), that they throw their trash where it belongs, keep their dishes in the kitchen and do rotating chores that are age appropriate and listed on the refrigerator. That way, I can work on more of the many bigger messes that have accumulated during that time of illness. I don't feel it is a lot to ask teenagers to wash a load of dishes, or straighten up a living room, or wash a load of clothes. I may be wrong, but someday they will have to know how to do these things and it would help all of us to work together to keep our home clean-and for me to get it all clean and keep it clean and reasonably organized.
Right now, I have a messy kitchen and an enormous amount of laundry to be washed. I do mean ENORMOUS. At least 9 of those 55 gallon contractor bags full. Between my illness letting that laundry pile up, it doesn't help that we keep having problems (on and off) with both our washer and dryer. It is hard, if not impossible, to get ahead of things when everything is chaotic. Frankly, I've said that I need help-that I can't do all of this alone. Not at all to the point that they have no social life or time to have fun. I'm talking about short-timed reasonable chores and they are allowed to play and go to friends homes for overnights.
Now I'm faced with what to believe or trust in concerning my daughter. I know this is not going to be easy or fun, but I felt I was doing the right thing. I hope I was right. Has anyone else had to deal with violent teens? If so, what measures or actions did you take? I've spent hours typing these feelings and worries out, please tell me, if you can, what I can do?

[JeanLynn81]

Hi and welcome to families. Sounds like you need a
I think I may have some advice for you, not because I'm currently raising a teenager, but because I used to be that teenager. It took me until I was 25, and having my first child out of wedlock with a deadbeat dad, to finally straighten out my priorities. Its still a work in progress, and I've come really far. I'm only laying out a few details here, if you want more you can pm me.
I wound up moving out at 17 out of anger. I moved in with a boyfriend who wound up hitting me, then a bachelor's pad that had no furniture and I slept on a beer-stained floor. DO NOT let your daughter leave until she's ready, unless you don't care that she gets put through much more traumatizing things than fighting with siblings.
It is very important that you get your daughter some psychiatric help before she turns 18 and has a say in it. Its very important that you start setting boundaries. My mom never did. Never grounded me, or gave me chores. I don't blame her. She was raised by a very strict father and swore she'd never be that way with her own kids. She just took it too far. And in the meantime I became a spoiled brat. I had everything made so easy for me in childhood, that the real world was a major shocker.
I never threatened to kill my mom however, and that is disturbing. Bring this up with her psychiatrist first and foremost! It needs to be resolved as soon as possible, and goes far beyond just trying to tease her sister.
You need to start setting boundaries, but you need to do it at a slow pace. Start with "no one leaves until they are 18, and if they do, child services will bring them back." Work on the chores and enforcing the word "no." Never bluff-don't say you're going to do something unless you absolutely mean to do it (i.e. following through with family services call-and actually use this to find a good counselor for your daughter). Trust me, I always called my mom's bluff, and was secretly dissappointed when she didn't do it.
Just two questions before I go: Are you concerned at all that your oldest daughter may be doing drugs? Are any of her friends bad influences?
I really do wish you the best of luck. I remember growing up in a home like this, and it was not pleasant. God bless your family and send you the encouragement you need!

[BlakeMatt]

You have a lot on your plate, and you need to realize that you are doing the best you can and you really should give yourself more credit. Your entire post, to me, sounds like you feel like you are failing as a Mother, or simply as a person. And you are not. The situation you are in is extremely difficult but you're sticking with it, you're seeking solutions instead of just letting it be, be proud of yourself for that. You're a loving Mother.

I agree with the above poster, could your eldest be doing drugs? Was she at all exposed in her life, or recently to any abuse? (I'm not saying by you). I ask because I grew up around abuse, and even after it was diffused I still exhibited a lot of anger and out bursts, I never wished death to my Mom but I did make our lives hell for a bit of a time.

You took the right steps of involving children and youth, they can provide you hep and I wouldn't fear any outcome involved, your younger children will be alright and they won't be removed. If you don't want your eldest to know that your youngest told you what she did, make sure you tell the Case Worker this, they will work with you, they are there to help you and your family out they won't do something that will cause more friction.

Your eldest daughter sounds lost, no goals no ambitions just is riding life and seeing where it takes her. Which can turn out to be a very dangerous route to be on. Have you ever considered getting her into counseling, or family counseling? She has only 2 months until she is 18 and can leave if she wishes but perhaps just starting this before and maybe she will stick with it, or at least gain something from it and yourselves also.

I know you and your husband have tried talking to her and it seems it usually gets no where, do you have a family member or family friend that isn't on a "side" that can be there to hold a family meeting and mediate the situation. If you try to talk to her, and she already feels stacked up against this may be why she's putting up such a defensive front. But having a mediator that isn't on either side, may help her feel like she can be heard or understood.

The fact that she wants to move out ahead of time, meaning she wants to run away from a problem she feels is only at home will only end up a hard time for her, and she'll realize that it wasn't just a problem at home. Maybe "try" to sit with her, or with a mediator there and tell her if she wants to move out, she needs to acquire a job, and that once she has a job and some funds set aside to move out, or in with roommates (Not a boyfriend) that you will help her out as much as you can with the move out. And that doesn't have to be financially, can be with helping her find an affordable place, help her try to set up the new place with items she will need and help her move in.

As for the youngest ones, I feel for them, I know what it's like to have someone continuously threaten a parent. Not from a sibling standpoint but my Mom's boyfriend(s) at occasions used to say that they were going to kill my Mom. And the fear it puts inside of you is just about debilitating, they're constantly thinking about this so that is why when they sleep it's causing the nightmares and night tremors. Do you honestly feel your eldest would ever harm you or her Dad? This is another area that counseling may help out, it will allow them to talk about it, another option to help them feel more protected would maybe to be to sign them up with some Self-Defense classes if you feel your eldest could actually bring harm. This way they will have the mind & abilities to defend themselves should the event ever occur and may make them feel more safe.

I'm not sure if I was any help out all but figured I would give my ideas out there for you. Your other option could be to have her committed to the psych ward of the hospital, I know that most places will hold a person who is requested to be there for about 3 days-1week, depending on how the Drs. there feel about the patient being released. There is a lot of bad raps with Psych Wards but they can provide help, and can help out the person who was forced to be committed. Since she is a Minor she would be on a floor with other minors, she would forced to attend Group Therapy to talk amongst other minors who are having difficulties being around their families, and also one and one counseling. It may be helpful. Being admitted doesn't mean she's suicidal or crazy either, there's a lot of stigma's relating to that, but it can be helpful and could be an option.


I wish you luck, you've found the best place here, everyone is extremely nice and helpful.


One more thing, you said you got a lot of chores to do and that they are piling up, don't make yourself take care of them all by yourself. Let someone else do it, washing clothes isn't terribly hard, if you don't do it they will run out of clothes and eventually get sick of wearing such dirty clothes, it's not a crime for you to decide to stop helping around and force others to help out. You've got a lot on your plate, take a break let someone else step up to the chores before you end up getting sick from all of this stress.
Good Luck.

[QueenAngie]

(((Hugs)))

Need to get into family counseling and ind. counseling for DD#1.

She is either having mental issues, doing drugs or alcohol.

(((Hugs)))

[Marriedmamaof3]

To answer a few questions that were posted, I do believe she was emotionally abused quite badly by her "first" boyfriend (she was sexually involved with him-her first, to say). He kept her from her friends, threatened her continuously-to the point of killing her(which was said on school grounds, so we spoke with the principal about it). He also kept constant tabs on her by calling and expecting her to call him on his cell phone, from her home phone(she doesn't have a cell phone anyway)-I believe just to make sure she wasn't cheating on him. She was not allowed to look or talk to any of her male friends at school, many of whom she'd known since grade school. He told her stories about how when he first met her he hadn't been thinking about going steady or dating her, but of how he wanted to rape her. He told her about stomping a kitten to death near his home just for fun. I know he is apparently(or at least was) into drugs-doing them, buying and selling. She also got into "cutting" herself to please him, since it showed him she had courage. Her explanation for the scratch marks (as they occurred) were that they happened during masonry class from being scratched by the blocks she was not being handed to from other classmates carefully(and other masonry accidents of scratches).
We were not aware at all that any of this had been going on. She was being more stubborn about spending time with him and on one occassion did not come home from school when told she must by us the day before. The police finally brought her home after dark, around 7pm(this was when it got dark earlier after the time change). Only after she had been throwing up repeatedly(not in hiding-spontaneously in full sight) and was losing weight that she finally told me the truth of what kind of person he really was. She had to be taken to the emergency room the first time because of her weight loss and her vomiting. She was still seeing him and we were ignorant of everything. She didn't want to take his jacket off, which, as we found out later, was covering her cuts. Then, after telling us all about what had happened, we took her to the doctor, because her nerves were so bad that she couldn't eat and keep it down, even though she was hungry. The doctor suggested she she a mental health professional and in the meantime begin taking maximum strength doses of an acid reducer in the hopes it would be helpful, then scheduled her for x-rays to determine if there was anything more serious wrong or if there was any permanent damage due to the vomitting.
She began seeing a therapist through the school(it is a wellness center here) about her issues. She was doing better, gaining back her weight and eating again. She seemed more sure of herself and was angry with herself and with her ex for what had happened. I encouraged her to reunite with her friends, tell them about her ex and her experiences(to a reasonably comfortable extent), just so they would be there for her and would understand what had happened to their friend. She did this and it helped.
Then she became involved with a boy who had been her ex's friend at one time and was not anymore, but was in a type of reform home for troubled teens. She jumped into the relationship, as she had the first one, just to be dumped on the phone after a time by one of his friends. The new boyfriend did tell her he felt he was "betraying" her ex by having a relationship with her. I felt, as she and others did, that her ex planned this with his friend to retaliate against her because of the breakup and our(her parents) constant visits to the school to report problems with him that were occuring on school grounds that he was getting in trouble for. Maybe I am wrong, but it seems too coincidental to just be a random thing. Now rumors swirl about what "kind" of girl she is, if you can understand what I am saying.
As far as drugs go, I am not aware of any signs of drug use nor withdrawal symptoms. I do know she smokes cigarettes, and have done all I can to get her to stop, but at this point all I can do is forbid it in my home and around us. So she must procure these through other sources(at school). Right now, I consider this the smallest of our issues, even though I don't agree with it. I fought the hard fight with her on this issue for a long time, as it began in her earlier teen years(another thing I had to find out about from another parent).
All of the friends that I used to know of hers have been out of her personal life for some time now. Even though I do take the time to try and get to know almost everyone she has been hanging around with and to talk to their parents, I am never sure of what may be going on when she is not here. One friend of hers was living with her grandmother, who is also a licensed caretaker of young children(of whom are family members). I found out some time ago from my youngest that my eldest (when she went with her to play with the kids), that my eldest was giving her cigarettes to smoke, the other girl also smoked and her grandmother not only knew, but allowed it in her home. My eldest also did this when my youngest would go out on short walks in the neighborhood with her first ex, in the belief that if her little sister participated in smoking cigarettes with her, she wouldn't or couldn't tell on her for doing so with her crazy ex.
Knowing that her first ex did drugs so much(even shooting up-what it was I don't know) and that she was with him and saw what he was doing has always left me wondering if she ever did anything, at least during that time. She says that she felt by loving him and being there for him would make him stop, because she didn't do drugs and didn't want him to. That may be true. She is not a horrible ogre, and I know she does have this type of "save the puppy dog" outlook on people-which is great, as long as you aren't being dragged down to their level or self-destructing in the process. So she has been abused in at least one of her relationships. The friends she has now, I don't really know. Because of several other incidents with family friends that I knew and trusted, I really have few people I believe or trust. These were people I knew, and knew well(or so I thought) whom have let my eldest smoke and drink(at one time), and have taken things from my other children as well-using their little bit of saved money for their own needs, etc. I always end up finding out later about all of these things and feel I don't know who to put my trust in. Even the school has not helped when it comes to her ex, since he still attends school there and seems to still be able to carry drugs around to do and sell at school. I don't know if things are any better in other public schools anywhere near here. Maybe that is just the way things are at schools now. Things sure have changed since I was in school.
I admit, I am having to educate myself on many teen words and "terms" and all the new things they are into and it really baffles the mind-to say the least. Back when I was a teen, it was basically cigarettes, smoking marijuana, and for the hardcore and older teens, cocaine. That was it. No crack, meth, no shooting up things with needles, no DMX, no cutting, no real emo-goth kids or goth kids, no snorting pills, etc. It is a whole new world many of us older parents(even I don't think that 41 is that old to be a parent), and there is so much to try to understand and attempt to relate to now. Used to be that the "troubled" teens at school were the ones that smoked cigarettes-they were the ones to avoid. Now it is commonplace. Kids begin trying and experimenting with all kinds of different things at such an early age now. Young kids, many still in grade school(which is K-4th grade here), are doing much more than just trying to snitch a cigarette butt from an ashtray to try. They now swear horribly, make sexual remarks, and get involved in all types of drugs-may times things they get from older siblings or their friends, even things they get at home(when parents are into drugs, etc.).
It is hard for me to remember growing up at that age(gradeschool, at least) and still riding my bike with friends, rollerskating, playing school and just really being a kid. Drugs and all of the other things I have talked about weren't even something I knew of or thought about. The worst? thing I ever remember was my father having a beer sometimes on the weekends and that my parents smoked, but there was no wrong in that because I was a kid and that was an adult thing and it certainly wasn't abused. My father wasn't some drunk and I just never thought about them smoking-it was an adult thing, not something I thought about. I never spoke with disrespect to my parents-especially my mom. Just one of those looks she could give you would let you know, without a single word, that you were beginning to cross the line and better stop. When I say that, I'm not talking about cursing at her or arguing and violence with her. I'm talking about asking about something more than once, or interrupting her when she was on the phone with someone. If my parents said no-the answer was no and that was that. No discussions, no explanations, no angry outbursts. I didn't need to be spanked or punished, because I knew what my boundaries were and I had the utmost respect for my parents. Not to say I liked all of their decisions(I might go outside and pout a bit), but I accepted it. Sometimes it seems as if the youngest kids in my generation had more moral and real maturity than many older teens and even adults do today. Just the idea that there seem to be quite a few adults with children today that allow their kids to smoke and even drink or do drugs in front of them or with them is beyond my understanding. Maybe I am just old fashioned, but as I grew up, the world in my home(and any others I knew of) did not rotate around what the kids wanted and all the places they wanted to go, the parents made the decisions and we were respectful of that.
Sorry for the long post. I'm still waiting to see if Family Services will call today, or just show up. I'm nervous and worried about all of this and just needed badly to "talk" , so to say. Thank you all for your concern and advice. It means so much to me. This is a wonderful place to be able to discuss these problems. Thank you all again.

[Marriedmamaof3]

To answer a few questions that were posted, I do believe she was emotionally abused quite badly by her "first" boyfriend (she was sexually involved with him-her first, to say). He kept her from her friends, threatened her continuously-to the point of killing her(which was said on school grounds, so we spoke with the principal about it). He also kept constant tabs on her by calling and expecting her to call him on his cell phone, from her home phone(she doesn't have a cell phone anyway)-I believe just to make sure she wasn't cheating on him. She was not allowed to look or talk to any of her male friends at school, many of whom she'd known since grade school. He told her stories about how when he first met her he hadn't been thinking about going steady or dating her, but of how he wanted to rape her. He told her about stomping a kitten to death near his home just for fun. I know he is apparently(or at least was) into drugs-doing them, buying and selling. She also got into "cutting" herself to please him, since it showed him she had courage. Her explanation for the scratch marks (as they occurred) were that they happened during masonry class from being scratched by the blocks she was not being handed to from other classmates carefully(and other masonry accidents of scratches).
We were not aware at all that any of this had been going on. She was being more stubborn about spending time with him and on one occassion did not come home from school when told she must by us the day before. The police finally brought her home after dark, around 7pm(this was when it got dark earlier after the time change). Only after she had been throwing up repeatedly(not in hiding-spontaneously in full sight) and was losing weight that she finally told me the truth of what kind of person he really was. She had to be taken to the emergency room the first time because of her weight loss and her vomiting. She was still seeing him and we were ignorant of everything. She didn't want to take his jacket off, which, as we found out later, was covering her cuts. Then, after telling us all about what had happened, we took her to the doctor, because her nerves were so bad that she couldn't eat and keep it down, even though she was hungry. The doctor suggested she she a mental health professional and in the meantime begin taking maximum strength doses of an acid reducer in the hopes it would be helpful, then scheduled her for x-rays to determine if there was anything more serious wrong or if there was any permanent damage due to the vomitting.
She began seeing a therapist through the school(it is a wellness center here) about her issues. She was doing better, gaining back her weight and eating again. She seemed more sure of herself and was angry with herself and with her ex for what had happened. I encouraged her to reunite with her friends, tell them about her ex and her experiences(to a reasonably comfortable extent), just so they would be there for her and would understand what had happened to their friend. She did this and it helped.
Then she became involved with a boy who had been her ex's friend at one time and was not anymore, but was in a type of reform home for troubled teens. She jumped into the relationship, as she had the first one, just to be dumped on the phone after a time by one of his friends. The new boyfriend did tell her he felt he was "betraying" her ex by having a relationship with her. I felt, as she and others did, that her ex planned this with his friend to retaliate against her because of the breakup and our(her parents) constant visits to the school to report problems with him that were occuring on school grounds that he was getting in trouble for. Maybe I am wrong, but it seems too coincidental to just be a random thing. Now rumors swirl about what "kind" of girl she is, if you can understand what I am saying.
As far as drugs go, I am not aware of any signs of drug use nor withdrawal symptoms. I do know she smokes cigarettes, and have done all I can to get her to stop, but at this point all I can do is forbid it in my home and around us. So she must procure these through other sources(at school). Right now, I consider this the smallest of our issues, even though I don't agree with it. I fought the hard fight with her on this issue for a long time, as it began in her earlier teen years(another thing I had to find out about from another parent).
All of the friends that I used to know of hers have been out of her personal life for some time now. Even though I do take the time to try and get to know almost everyone she has been hanging around with and to talk to their parents, I am never sure of what may be going on when she is not here. One friend of hers was living with her grandmother, who is also a licensed caretaker of young children(of whom are family members). I found out some time ago from my youngest that my eldest (when she went with her to play with the kids), that my eldest was giving her cigarettes to smoke, the other girl also smoked and her grandmother not only knew, but allowed it in her home. My eldest also did this when my youngest would go out on short walks in the neighborhood with her first ex, in the belief that if her little sister participated in smoking cigarettes with her, she wouldn't or couldn't tell on her for doing so with her crazy ex.
Knowing that her first ex did drugs so much(even shooting up-what it was I don't know) and that she was with him and saw what he was doing has always left me wondering if she ever did anything, at least during that time. She says that she felt by loving him and being there for him would make him stop, because she didn't do drugs and didn't want him to. That may be true. She is not a horrible ogre, and I know she does have this type of "save the puppy dog" outlook on people-which is great, as long as you aren't being dragged down to their level or self-destructing in the process. So she has been abused in at least one of her relationships. The friends she has now, I don't really know. Because of several other incidents with family friends that I knew and trusted, I really have few people I believe or trust. These were people I knew, and knew well(or so I thought) whom have let my eldest smoke and drink(at one time), and have taken things from my other children as well-using their little bit of saved money for their own needs, etc. I always end up finding out later about all of these things and feel I don't know who to put my trust in. Even the school has not helped when it comes to her ex, since he still attends school there and seems to still be able to carry drugs around to do and sell at school. I don't know if things are any better in other public schools anywhere near here. Maybe that is just the way things are at schools now. Things sure have changed since I was in school.
I admit, I am having to educate myself on many teen words and "terms" and all the new things they are into and it really baffles the mind-to say the least. Back when I was a teen, it was basically cigarettes, smoking marijuana, and for the hardcore and older teens, cocaine. That was it. No crack, meth, no shooting up things with needles, no DMX, no cutting, no real emo-goth kids or goth kids, no snorting pills, etc. It is a whole new world many of us older parents(even I don't think that 41 is that old to be a parent), and there is so much to try to understand and attempt to relate to now. Used to be that the "troubled" teens at school were the ones that smoked cigarettes-they were the ones to avoid. Now it is commonplace. Kids begin trying and experimenting with all kinds of different things at such an early age now. Young kids, many still in grade school(which is K-4th grade here), are doing much more than just trying to snitch a cigarette butt from an ashtray to try. They now swear horribly, make sexual remarks, and get involved in all types of drugs-may times things they get from older siblings or their friends, even things they get at home(when parents are into drugs, etc.).
It is hard for me to remember growing up at that age(gradeschool, at least) and still riding my bike with friends, rollerskating, playing school and just really being a kid. Drugs and all of the other things I have talked about weren't even something I knew of or thought about. The worst? thing I ever remember was my father having a beer sometimes on the weekends and that my parents smoked, but there was no wrong in that because I was a kid and that was an adult thing and it certainly wasn't abused. My father wasn't some drunk and I just never thought about them smoking-it was an adult thing, not something I thought about. I never spoke with disrespect to my parents-especially my mom. Just one of those looks she could give you would let you know, without a single word, that you were beginning to cross the line and better stop. When I say that, I'm not talking about cursing at her or arguing and violence with her. I'm talking about asking about something more than once, or interrupting her when she was on the phone with someone. If my parents said no-the answer was no and that was that. No discussions, no explanations, no angry outbursts. I didn't need to be spanked or punished, because I knew what my boundaries were and I had the utmost respect for my parents. Not to say I liked all of their decisions(I might go outside and pout a bit), but I accepted it. Sometimes it seems as if the youngest kids in my generation had more moral and real maturity than many older teens and even adults do today. Just the idea that there seem to be quite a few adults with children today that allow their kids to smoke and even drink or do drugs in front of them or with them is beyond my understanding. Maybe I am just old fashioned, but as I grew up, the world in my home(and any others I knew of) did not rotate around what the kids wanted and all the places they wanted to go, the parents made the decisions and we were respectful of that.
Sorry for the long post. I'm still waiting to see if Family Services will call today, or just show up. I'm nervous and worried about all of this and just needed badly to "talk" , so to say. Thank you all for your concern and advice. It means so much to me. This is a wonderful place to be able to discuss these problems. Thank you all again.

[neelpandey]

Yeah it is really true parents dont understand kids and find help for troubled teens which lead them to violence against their own parents.