[simplyme]

What should I do when there is no one to talk to about the many bad
experiences I have had with the Relief Society since moving to a small town in
Southern Utah many years ago.

I have been sadly mistreated and it is mostly due to the fact that I did not know that
I had to attend Relief Society. I am older than most of you and had been taught
that I only needed to attend Sacrament Meeting. I wish I had known about
percentages and statistics in the church LONG ago. I have hurt others without
meaning to do so but have also found out the hard way that our leaders often
use devious and dishonest means to be able to get the statistics that they NEED.
It is really not their fault because I know that they are under great pressure.


I have had to go through many hurtful things and have listened to many hurtful comments.
I have been put through so much that I stopped attending Sacrament
meeting. One of the women from my ward (inspired by others to do so has asked me if I wanted to have my records removed from the church. My testimony is now not nearly as strong now as it used to be. I sometimes feel like I only want to remain in the church because of fear. I would hate to have my name removed and then find out on the other side that it is true and I made a very foolish mistake.

I have now returned to Sacrament meeting but due to my panic attacks I have to get
out of the building as soon as the meeting ends.

I have been warned that I need to avoid stress and being around the Relief
Society sisters triggers my stress. I am indeed grateful for anti-depressants.
Depression runs in our family and a few members have taken their own lives
because of it. I cannot attend Relief Society and cannot listen to their tapes
due to the stress that it causes.


I have no one to talk to because no one will listen because they are NOT able to understand.

[babydawn]

Originally Posted by simplyme

What should I do when there is no one to talk to about the many bad
experiences I have had with the Relief Society since moving to a small town in
Southern Utah many years ago.

I have been sadly mistreated and it is mostly due to the fact that I did not know that
I had to attend Relief Society. I am older than most of you and had been taught
that I only needed to attend Sacrament Meeting. I wish I had known about
percentages and statistics in the church LONG ago. I have hurt others without
meaning to do so but have also found out the hard way that our leaders often
use devious and dishonest means to be able to get the statistics that they NEED.
It is really not their fault because I know that they are under great pressure.

I am SO sorry you are going through this right now. It breaks my heart to hear of members treating people this way. The numbers are NOT what is important. At our last Stake leadership meeting, they focused on this very thing.... FOCUS ON THE GIRLS, NOT NUMBERS! I suppose some people get so stuck in their ways it is hard to overcome. The leaders should be honest in all of their dealings.... that questions is asked before receiving a temple recommend. It is that important.

Originally Posted by simplyme

I have had to go through many hurtful things and have listened to many hurtful comments.
I have been put through so much that I stopped attending Sacrament
meeting. One of the women from my ward (inspired by others to do so has asked me if I wanted to have my records removed from the church. My testimony is now not nearly as strong now as it used to be. I sometimes feel like I only want to remain in the church because of fear. I would hate to have my name removed and then find out on the other side that it is true and I made a very foolish mistake.

I am afraid I too have been on the receiving end of hurtful comments, many of them. I am not sure why people behave the way they do, other than they too are human and have weaknesses. Please don't let something like that keep you from church. There is a wonderful talk given by David A. Bednar of the 12 that talks about offense. You should read it. It has so much good counsel in it. http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOr...____&hideNav=1
As far as someone asking if you want your records removed, I would also just let that pass. They obviously don't know your heart. I had a friend once tell me that she always thought that was the best thing to do when people were inactive and seemed that they didn't want anything to do with the church. All I could think about was Christ and him talking about the lost sheep and how we should leave the 99 to find the one. It is found in Luke 15.

Originally Posted by simplyme

I have now returned to Sacrament meeting but due to my panic attacks I have to get
out of the building as soon as the meeting ends.

I have been warned that I need to avoid stress and being around the Relief
Society sisters triggers my stress. I am indeed grateful for anti-depressants.
Depression runs in our family and a few members have taken their own lives
because of it. I cannot attend Relief Society and cannot listen to their tapes
due to the stress that it causes.

I too have suffered much from depression. I have had a taste of panic attacks although I think that many have panic attacks which can be dibilitating. My mother in law doesn't attend the temple because her panic attacks get so bad. All I can say is that you know you and your heart, as does Christ. He DOES expect us to try to overcome our weaknesses, however, not he does NOT expect us to do it alone. I am so grateful you came on to our site and brought this up. Perhaps we can be a great support for you. Perhaps we can help you with what you need.

Originally Posted by simplyme

I have no one to talk to because no one will listen because they are NOT able to understand.

We are here, and we understand. Come back and talk often. The cliche statement of the church is true but the people in it aren't is so right on the money. Take care and keep us posted.

[simplyme]

The first thing that they did in X ward was to send only one VT to me because they thought that I was resistant to the visiting teaching program. TEN years of having the same *one and only* VT finally sparked my curiousity. I asked a former R.S. President if there was a percentage attached and she told me there was one. She also told me that she was doing the same thing to a friend of mine . She said that this one woman thing was actually representing both the VTing and the HTing programs. There was just one main problem here. I had wondered why we had never had home teachers but did not know at the time that they were working behind the scenes. They all have Temple Recommends but the "Are you honest in all of your dealings" seemed to sail over their heads.
I had a VT companion who did not like me very much but was forced by the RS President to continue having me as her partner. (This ward seldom changes partners like other wards do. This elderly companion told me in a really nasty tone that she was to continue 'letting me go visiting teaching with her". She said one mean comment to me after another probably hoping that I would take the hint and leave. I wanted to play this out and see how far she would go. I found out alright and it became a very painful learning experience for me. She was visiting the sisters on her own except for one of them who was in a nursing home. Sister M. told me that she was talking with the four other women at church and was counting this as her visiting teaching. A few months later I received a phone call from one of her ward friends. She asked me about five quick question all pointing to the fact that I was a terrible visiting teacher. I could not teach anyone because the sister M had been doing it by herself. I went to her home shortly after receiving this degrading phone call. Sister M told me to go over to see one of the woman by myself because she had been unable to visit with her and it was at the end of the month. I did as I was asked but the woman had marked it on her calandar and showed me that Sister M has visited with her on the third of the month and of course I had not been asked to go with her. The woman lived directly across the street and I walked back over to see Sister M. She knew she had been caught and started to yell at me. It later became known to me that there had been at least five other women in on this dishonest act . I cried for months thinking that there was something wrong with me and took it very hard. I stopped attending the ward shortly afterwards because everything seemed to be very cold. I know that I could no longer feel the Spirit in that ward.
I went to another ward (Visitors Welcome) the sign said. I took a friend with me who had also had problems with the same ward. She had caught four women in the restroom gossiping about her when she was in one of the stalls. This all happened during the time of the R.S. meeting. The Visitors Welcome signs do not mean a thing I guess unless we visit only a few times and not on a regular basis. The two of us sat on the back row and they refused to allow us to have the sacrament even though we motioned for it. We went back for one final week and sat on one of the middle benches so that they could not refuse giving us the Sacrament and then we left for good ... never to return again to church for at least five more years.
I was sitting in my living room and watching David Bednar's talk about not taking offense during October Conference 2006. I was watching it with a friend while we were talking on the telephone and we both heard him say that they people who really needed to hear his talk were not listening to General Conference. Neither one of us were attending church at the time and therefore it made us very angry. It was a great talk for the leaders and was used over and over again. But I have known many people who took great offense to his talk. I cannot imagine our Savior saying these things to anyone. His talk has been repeated many times and I am glad that there has been another General Conference. I carefully listened to his last talk in April ... "The parable of the pickle". He did not say if it was a dill pickle or a sweet pickle.
Sorry for the mispelled words. I do not know how to remove the text from this board so that I can run it through my spell check program.
I am hopefully never dishonest in any of my dealings. I do not qualify for a Temple Recommend right now because I am unable to attend RS due to my panic attacks.
I would like to ask you for your prayers.
Thank you !

[babydawn]

I have to tell you upfront that I am a person who will tell you exactly what I think and what is on my mind. Please don't take offense to anything I say. I would really like to continue this converstation and help you to find whatever help that you may have been seeking by coming here.

I am not sure why they would be counting the HT while you were just having VT. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense and I would bring that up with the bishop directly. However, the ten year thing doesn't seem odd to me. In my ward, they will only change you if there is a need (time conflict, move in and outs, etc). That way, we can develop good friendships with the sisters we visit, thus making it easier for them to open up in the event of a problem. ALL wards have percentages attached to VT and HT, it only becomes a problem when that is ALL the leaders focus on. And lets remember, that they too are human and have their faults. Judgements are judgements and it sounds like they are judging you as well as you judging them. I have long since learned that their are two sides of every story. Perhaps they feel your animosity towards them and take it as you not really wanting them around. Gossip is gossip and is ALWAYS hurtful (and yes, I have been on the receiving end of gossip in the ward that I attend every Sunday). That is why the church tries so hard to get people to stop already. However, even the best wards have people in them that choose to participate in gossip. I think perhaps the best thing I can tell you to do is to visit with your bishop, and if you are uncomfortable doing that, visit with your stake president. These men are inspired, and if you go to them, prayerfully, and with a humble heart, not attacking those who have hurt you, but explain to them how hurt you feel and how difficult it is for you with your anxiety and depression, I am sure you would find some good councel for YOU. Another thing... perhaps you should ask for a blessing. They can be a great source of comfort.

I find it interesting that you found David Bednar's talk so offensive. The entire thing was how taking offense was a choice. How Christ expects us to not deny ourselves the blessings of the gospel because we have taken offense to what someone has said. Ask yourself these questions: Did Christ offend you? Should YOU be punished because someone else offended you? Should YOUR choices reflect others decisions? His comment on people who really needing it, not watching was probably 95% true. Many members who choose not to go to church because of offense, cut themselves off entirely. I have family members who are wonderful examples of this. They cut themselves off completely from the church and its teachings, including conference. You and your friend, I am afraid, are the exception in this case.... I really wish you weren't, but you are.

Now, as far as you not being able to hold a temple recommend because of not attending RS. This is not accurate. You do not have to attend RS in order to have a temple recommend. You do have to attend Sacrament meeting, pay your tithing, have a testimony of Christ, be honest in your dealings, not abusive to family members, and sustain the leaders of the Church.

I will most definately keep you in my prayers. Take care of yourself, talk to the stake president and keep me posted. And please remember that we all have weaknessess. That is what we are sent here to overcome. How easy would this life be if there was no opposition. How would we learn? How would we progress if there was nothing to test our spirits? This goes for you, me, and the women in your ward. God is the ultimate judge and his judgements will be just. We are asked to forgive, to love one another, even to pray for our enemies. All of these things, Christ taught in the Bible. They seem rather difficult at times, and none of us are perfect, which is why we need Him so desperately. Keep in touch.

[simplyme]

This entire situation on my part comes from the fact that I detest anything that is dishonest. It set me into a tail spin that I am not able to recover from.

If I do not have to attend RS in order to get a Temple Recommend than why I am talked about for not doing so other than they need to count me as a percentage? I have read that the RS budget depends on how many of the women attend.

There was another single sister in this ward who was told by the RS President at the time that she was "a burden and an imposition" because the ward members had to give her rides because she is unable to drive. I talk to her frequently and at the time she came very close to taking her own life over it. She was so upset that she wanted to take her own life. Fortunately, her non-lds friends were able to help her realize that this woman cares not what she says to anyone. This gal was fortunate enough to move out of the ward but will not attend the Temple because this woman is a Temple worker. She also (of course) wonders how many of the others think that she was 'a burden and a imposition. It would be rather hard for anyone to not take offense to a RSP saying such a thing. She attended other religions for quite awhile because she came to the self-conclusion that Mormon's are not Christians. She has now fortunately returned to her LDS ward because she has a very strong testimony.

I feel sorry for my NOW RSP . I have really upset her because I asked that I only have 'telephone visits' from the VT's. I told last Sunday how much I liked her and she said, "Friend's first ..... " I thought that this was a very good answer because if all sisters thought that they had at least a few friends in the ward than maybe they would be more willing to come out to church. I once moved over to our family business residence for a few months. It has now been sold and I wish I could go back but of course this is not an option. One of the women in the ward where I feel tortured to have to attend told me that 'no one in the ward liked me'. I was shocked because I thought that at least she liked me. I would not have paid so much attention to her comment if she had not added that I moved over there so that I could sell more products.

Maybe this ward is more of a NUMBERS ward than the others. I will never know because I cannot afford to move. And as they say "ONCE STUNG ... Shame on you" "Twice stung ... Shame on me." I came from a childhood home of verbal abuse and I have mostly forgiven my mother now that she is gone. It was an 'earthly illness' that she suffered from. I did not approve of much of anything that my mother said but I now feel that she was right when she called the R.S. a clique and said she only trusted them as far as she could throw them. As I listen to our Church Leaders talk everyone that I have heard talk about their mothers being a good influence. I wish this had been the case with me but ...... Things are what they are.

In one of my sister's ward they change VT's once a year beginning in January so woman has a chance to get to know each other.
Due to how my mother treated us she is not able to attend Relief Society because she feels very self-conscience.

My other sister does not attend church at all and was told (she claims) that someone in the ward told her that she would be
put on the 'mud list' because she did not attend the single sisters Christmas dinner.

If sister M hated me so much than she should of had the courage to say that she did want me to be her companion to the RS President (soon to be the Stake Relief Society President
.... who was later excommunicated because they found out she was a Lesbian. I now cringe at the thought of how she used to touch my shoulder. This of course is an extreme case and I feel bad even feeling the need to mention it.
Christ died for the sinners and I cannot judge.

The only thing that keeps me going is knowing that our Savior love me. I have never taken offense to His words.

If I could go back with the knowledge that I know have I would have preferred to be a convert than a child who was baptized without any knowledge of the Gospel and then SENT to church.

The ONLY thing that keep me going is the KNOWLEDGE that our Savior Jesus Christ loves me.

From the President Hinkley Larry King Interview http://www.lds-mormon.com/lkl_00.shtml


CALLER: Yes. Since we're getting into the 21st century, President Hinckley, what is the chance that women may hold a priesthood in the Mormon church? Gordon B. Hinckley: Well, they don't hold the priesthood at the present time. It would take another revelation to bring that about. I don't anticipate it. The women of the church are not complaining about it. They have their own organization, a very strong organization, 4 million plus members. I don't know of another women's organization in the world which does so much for women as does that, as this church has. They're happy. They sit on boards and governance in the church. I don't hear any complaints about it.
I personally would NEVER want the Priesthood BUT I do not want the World's largest women's organization either. This organization certainly does have a huge membership because we are NOT given a choice to even become a member. As all Mormons women know they are automatically a member when they turn 18 years old. This probably upsets more than anything else. I do not like to be forced to be a member of anything AND then JUDGED because I do not like this 'program' . Maybe I believe in Free Agency to much. As one woman put it .... "We have our free agency in everything but in the church. I have been told that the church is no longer saying that we have FREE AGENCY but that we have AGENCY.
As another sister said .... It seems to me that the LDS church is now heading towards Satans side when it comes to the war in Heaven. Like me, she feel like the Mormons 'might' be trying to force us to be good. I CERTAINLY HOPE NOT !!!!!!!

[babydawn]

It sounds to me like you need to get on your knees and pray. Pray until you find the answers you need for you, and remember, they may not always be the answers you want. This may not come overnight. It sounds to me like the new RSP is a wonderful woman who has her heart in the right place. I hope you allow her into your home.

In reading your last post I will be honest, I am very sad, sad to the point of tears. I have never met a member who still has a testimony and yet, holds so much animosity towards the church. I am sorry; truely, deeply sorry, that you have been through what you have been through. I can not change the women in your ward, I can not change you. We do have free agency, which simply means we get to make our own choices and are responsible for our own choices. When one is baptized a member of the church, they make the choice to be a member and all that being a member entails. There are organizations for every member of the church. It changes on age, but that is it. Primary, Young Women's (or Young Men's) and Relief Society (or Elder's, High Priest Quorum). No one if forcing you to be good. No one can do that. The church teaches righteous principles, whether or not you choose to follow them is entirely up to you. They do not force anyone to do anything. You can not always choose your circumstances, but you can choose how to handle the situations you are in.

I read a quote in an Ensign once, and it was really awesome and really made me want to change the way that I look at things. The quote was by a man named Dr. Viktor Frankl and it was being recited by someone else (I don't remember who) in an article. "We who lived in concentration camps can remember the men who walked through the huts comforting others, giving away their last piece of bread. They may have been few in number, but they offer sufficient proof that everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms-to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way."

You truely seem to have a testimony of Christ. If you study his teachings and follow them; if you strive to live your life as Christ would have you do; if you pray with a humble heart, submitting yourself to God's will (for He has an eternal perspective on things, where as, we are limited in what we see), then you can't go wrong.

Take care my dear, and keep me posted.

[simplyme]

Babydawn,
This topic was only started because of my hatred of dishonesty. I only wanted someone (anyone) to say that they were sorry for their actions people can seldom admit that they are wrong.
Everyone wants to have their feelings at least validated maybe by only saying, "I am sorry that

you have been hurt." I am quick to apologize IF I ever think I have hurt anyone's feelings. I have read some of the Jewish laws and

they have to apologize by the end of the year to anyone who they think they may have offended. If this was a law that we had to

followed in the LDS Church we might be more careful to say things to ourselves before speaking. Maybe this is the reason why I

hated (strong word) David Bednar's talk so much. Our Savior tells us (commands us) to LOVE EVERYONE and maybe I take

this more seriously than others do.

There are three ways that a RS sister can have contact with the Relief Society. I have checked this out through LDS groups and

have also seen it done in my own ward.

Number one .... home visit
Number two .... telephone visit
Number three Postcard or better still yet through email.

There is also another way which I do not approve of but know that it is often done. If a person has an LDS friend who is also a ward

member is allowed into the home of anyone who is thought of being 'resistant to the program' then the person is allowed to check

on the person and get the monthly credit for doing so.

I am somewhat handicapped and have a house cleaning service. Although my house is clean I have to keep things close by and

so things are often cluttered. I know someone who went into the home of a young mother (of four children) and found a banana

peel and a knife that had been put in a peanut butter jar on the living room floor. She reported it to her VT co-coordinator and it got

back to this young mother. The woman knew that it got back to her because the young mother told her so and still (almost brags)

about saying something about it. She is an older sister and has never married.

I know that I frustrate the leaders in my ward. I have 'my rules' and they have 'their rules'. I need to follow the orders of

my doctor to avoid having panic attacks. I have had seizures and because of them and this concerns me mainly because I had a

daughter who died from a seizure 14 months ago. Rumors were passed at the time of her death and before we were able to get the

results of her autopsy. The rumors quickly spread around the ward that she died from taking prescription drugs. I received a note

from one of my previous VT's who had long since moved out of the ward. The note was very unkind and she said such things as ....

"I understand this _____ and I understand that and they all mentioned drug abuse. My own sister (my sibling) told me that her

son heard people talking at my daughter's funeral that my daughter fell and hit her head which caused the bruising and it was brought on from taking drugs. My sister's husband is a child molested and his children and my children. This idiot plea bargained and got off with only having to have treatment for himself. My youngest daughter has spend years in therapy because she tried to kill herself because of what he did to her.

Our family doctor told me that an autopsy causes bruising and swelling. The only 'drugs' that we found in her system were pain pills and seizure medication. She had recently had a hysterectomy and the only ovary they were able to save was the one that my sister's husband destroyed by giving her Chlamydia. She did not find out until years later when she had to have surgery while serving a Mission.

I am still trying to cope with the

death of my daughter. I have heard these gossips talking about each other for years and once again I am now yet another source

of their tongues for which they will also be judged. I hate the sight of them, go to Sacrament meeting (((( after having to take my

own seizure medication ))))) . I start with panic attacks normally on Friday night and they often do not leave unless I plan on

skipping the meeting the next Sunday.

My bishop is very aware that I have panic attacks but not my seizures. We have a man in our ward who is unable to attend his

meetings because of the same thing. My bishop does not know that I suffer from seizures and I am not going to tell him.

Long before my daughter died ... and after many years of suffering from some of the many things that I have mentioned (and

CERTAINLY) not all of them I did a lot of continuous praying. I wanted the Lord to tell me that the LDS church is NOT true. You

are probably asking yourself why anyone would want to KNOW that the gospel is NOT true. I can tell you but never in a million

years would you understand. My explanation: If the Gospel is not true that all of my suffering due to the OR.SO. would not

count. I could just chalk it up to the all too common saying that MORMONS ARE NOT CHRISTIAN. "They only believe in the

LIVING CHRIST .... well,
you have most likely heard of some of the anti-mormon talk before. Joseph Smith and the Free Masons (much like our own

Temple ceremonies etc.). I NEVER received an answer that the LDS church is not true and I have never received an answer that it

is true. I am most likely going to have to wait until I die to find out. Am I concerned about the first judgment? Without a doubt I

am very concerned. If I was not concerned I would have told my former ward clerk that I wanted to have my records removed when

he asked me if I would like to have this done and THEN denied to my husband that he had made the phone call three years ago on

my birthday .... to my husband of course who believed him. I am sealed to my husband and of course I would never want to have

my records removed EVEN if I did NOT believe. I would not hurt my husband or my living children for all the money in the world.

If I were able to have my records TRANSFERRED without having to move I would do so in a heartbeat. I talked to a psychologist

three days after my daughter passed away. He is also LDS and in one of the Stake Presidencies. My bishop was willing to pay

for four visits to this guy and I mentioned the problems that I had with my ward. He told me that in order to change my

membership to another ward that I was not living in I would have to go through the First Presidency.

The first thing he wanted to know was if I would give him permission to talk to my bishop telling him what I had told him. He

received an instant "NO" and then wanted to know if I wanted to make another appointment to see him.

I walked out of his office with head held high and heard the voice of my daughter in my right ear saying "Good job Mom."

She had lived in the ward until she was married and had bore her testimony a week before she died on how much she loved that

ward (outside of Utah) saying that it was a loving ward and very different than the one she had been raised in (MY ward). She had

been visiting with us for the blessing of the baby boy of her brother. She died in a motel room and her small son told the maids

that his mother was sleeping. She died on this brother's birthday.

Much of my testimony has to do with the Mormon's knowledge that the Trinity is not three in one and of course it goes on from

there.

Unlike our ward members the Lord knows everything about us and His judgment is really all that counts as far as I am concerned.

The first time I tried to post this it did not go through and so I might be mentioning this again. My daughter bore her testimony

the Sunday before she came to Utah and thanked them all for being such a friendly ward unlike the ward in which she was raised (
my ward)


I am now unable to write anymore about this topic.

[babydawn]

It sounds as though you have had a rough go of things. I am very sorry to hear about your daughter. It must be very difficult for you. God is aware of your trials. I don't know if you have had the chance to read any of the RS lessons, but before I was put into YW (about a month ago), I taught RS and there is one lesson that you should read. It is titled Tragedy or Destiny and it has to do with the most difficult trials that we have in our lives and why we have them. Here is the link: http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOr...ontentLocale=0

Please take care of yourself, and if you ever need to talk, let me know.

[Firespice]

Babydawn has said all that i could say.

except to add ...........

BIG HUGS....

suzie

[mcke]

“Don’t walk in front of me I may not follow ~ Don’t walk behind me I may not lead ~ Just walk beside me and be my friend.”

I feel you, SimplyMe. Who can we talk to if we don't feel like we can talk to each other? I'm so sorry you are suffering. Sometimes I think I understand why Brigham Young disband the RS at one time. We shouldn't need to sedate ourselves to go to church. I would like to see a study on 'how women opress women' and how we can better support each other. We need friends, not missionaries. We need peers, not moral superiors. We need to 'feel', not 'fix' each other. There are real dilemmas in life. No easy answers. I will account to my priesthood, not the entire RS. I can only serve one master. I can callberate with my bishop on my stregnths and limitations. Limitations are o.k! Not something we neccesarily have to 'overcome' in this life. Think "babysteps" and keep your focus.
I commend you for your courage to keep coming to church after all you have endured. You have chosen not to take offense for many years and the ‘pressure’ keeps mounting. You were not ‘looking’ for fault, you were hurt! To properly resolve offenses once and for all so they don’t keep coming back to bite us in the butt we need a * voice *. We need dialogue. A medium for two-way conversation. “..be reconciled, and ‘if’ he will hear you then you have gained a brother.”

We need to learn how to ‘listen’ to each other. We can avoid hostility, hurt and anger when we feel heard. I am pro-actively looking for ways to take care of myself with you. Let’s keep in touch. You can talk to me.

‘Simple’ is my favorite word. I like your screen name. One of my screen names is ‘simplesaint’. lol. The atonement allows us to ‘lighten up’. Rebel against paralyzing guilt, social shame, and perfection ‘ism’. Don’t settle, but be content. Who you are right now is enough, and is an acceptable gift to Jesus.