[Mayfield]

I have a friend who is entering into his third marriage. His first marriage lasted more than a dozen years, produced no kids, and ended in divorce. The next marriage lasted far less time, produced no kids, and ended in a messy, protracted divorce.

This year, his girlfriend, an old university classmate is expecting his child. She's going to have the kid, and they're going to raise it together, so I'm told.

Because there's a kid on the way, I asked if they were getting married. I asked this because it seemed obvious to me he should, for the good of his kid and the protection of his own rights and assets - not the least of which being the protection of the access to his kid - marry this woman (under a pre-nuptual agreement) lickety-split.

Here's why:

1) The benefit of the kid is what I'm considering first. A marriage under a prenup reduces variability and decreases the chance that the kid's life will begin under a protracted divorce nightmare.

2) The odds of a divorce are frankly pretty good. The ink is barely dry on his ugly, expensive second divorce, made all the more ugly and expensive thanks to having no prenup.

3) Both he and I are friends going back to grade school - and we're both children of divorced parents. It was terrible for both of us in a lot of ways, and we both remember this. I guess I'm the only one applying what we learned, though.

4) After meeting this woman, I found she sets off a lot of alarms. A bit obnoxious, cold, self-absorbed, really, really likes her booze, has a series of interpersonal train wrecks in her own past, and the capper - her sister just had a kid, a case of filial uterine me-too-ism if ever I saw one.

No matter the reason, the the bun is in the oven already. So I bring up marriage.

Did he say "Yeah, I'm on it"? Did he say "Of course, what am I, an idiot? We're doing a prenup" No, he did not. He looked at me like I was crazy, like marrying the mother of his child or getting a prenup was the most ridiculous thing he had ever heard in his many years.

A couple of weeks after our talk, he did ask her to marry him and she did accept, but there's no talk of a prenuptual agreement.

So: Should I press him about this?

Or am I out of line? Am I over-reacting to what is just another set of benign variables that some weird upper-middle class people find themselves having kids under?

Mayfield

[mollymae]

I think you should stay out of it. If she's not his soul mate or the love of his life then he shouldn't marry her.

[Mayfield]

Originally Posted by mollymae

"I think you should stay out of it. If she's not his soul mate or the love of his life then he shouldn't marry her."

Thanks for the answer.

I don't know if she is or not, but I don't see why that's the most important consideration when she's pregnant.

What's more important to a child's welfare than having a happy, stable, two-parent home? Isn't marriage/prenup the best way to get and stay there?

[mollymae]

No I don't think it is. Marriage should be a once in a life time deal.

It shouldn't be done manipulative way to control possible future problems.

[Mayfield]

Originally Posted by mollymae

"No I don't think it is. Marriage should be a once in a life time deal.

It shouldn't be done manipulative way to control possible future problems."

Fair enough, but it's too late for once in a lifetime here, so what's the best course of action for the child?

Since they've decided to get married, do you agree that a prenup is a good idea?

Thanks

[mollymae]

I don't agree with prenups. If there is a need for one of those I'd be encouraging my friend not to get married in the first place. JMHO

[Mayfield]

Originally Posted by mollymae

"I don't agree with prenups. If there is a need for one of those I'd be encouraging my friend not to get married in the first place. JMHO"

I hear you. And thanks for sharing your opinion.

Seems to me that what adults should do in this case is move to protect the child and each other by making formal arrangements instead of allowing the informal one to stand. The kid needs something other than a roll of the dice, you know?

Anyway, thanks.

[Samual]

Originally Posted by Mayfield

I have a friend who is entering into his third marriage. His first marriage lasted more than a dozen years, produced no kids, and ended in divorce. The next marriage lasted far less time, produced no kids, and ended in a messy, protracted divorce.

This year, his girlfriend, an old university classmate is expecting his child. She's going to have the kid, and they're going to raise it together, so I'm told.

Because there's a kid on the way, I asked if they were getting married. I asked this because it seemed obvious to me he should, for the good of his kid and the protection of his own rights and assets - not the least of which being the protection of the access to his kid - marry this woman (under a pre-nuptual agreement) lickety-split.

Here's why:

1) The benefit of the kid is what I'm considering first. A marriage under a prenup reduces variability and decreases the chance that the kid's life will begin under a protracted divorce nightmare.

Smooth divorce or rough divorce, none are going to be a good experience for a child.

2) The odds of a divorce are frankly pretty good. The ink is barely dry on his ugly, expensive second divorce, made all the more ugly and expensive thanks to having no prenup.

So your wanting him to marry, to divorce

3) Both he and I are friends going back to grade school - and we're both children of divorced parents. It was terrible for both of us in a lot of ways, and we both remember this. I guess I'm the only one applying what we learned, though.

Your the one applying what you have learnt? Then why are you advocating an unwanted marriage that you predict will end in divorce?

4) After meeting this woman, I found she sets off a lot of alarms. A bit obnoxious, cold, self-absorbed, really, really likes her booze, has a series of interpersonal train wrecks in her own past, and the capper - her sister just had a kid, a case of filial uterine me-too-ism if ever I saw one.

You think she is obnoxious and self absorbed, well I'm sorry but you are the one that seems self absorbed enough to want to control a persons life. My sister has a child almost the same age as our youngest, I clearly only had Pippa to take attention away from my sister.

No matter the reason, the the bun is in the oven already. So I bring up marriage.

Did he say "Yeah, I'm on it"? Did he say "Of course, what am I, an idiot? We're doing a prenup" No, he did not. He looked at me like I was crazy, like marrying the mother of his child or getting a prenup was the most ridiculous thing he had ever heard in his many years.

A couple of weeks after our talk, he did ask her to marry him and she did accept, but there's no talk of a prenuptual agreement.

So: Should I press him about this?

Or am I out of line? Am I over-reacting to what is just another set of benign variables that some weird upper-middle class people find themselves having kids under?

Mayfield

We married for love, not contractual agreement, if that makes us weird then so be it.

[browneyes01]

I also think you should stay out of it you said it your self the ink is not even dry yet on his divorce and you are telling him to get married, what if he didn't want to make that step, what is he wanted to be sure this time around and you talked him into something that he and the mother of his child weren't ready for. For his sake and the sake of your friendship stay out of it.

[Mayfield]

Thanks everybody.

I have to say I am surprised at the support for the idea that informal arrangements between parents are better for a child. I'm pretty sure they aren't, on the whole, but everybody's entitled to their opinion.

Compared to our friendship, I don't think that child is less important. Compared to his own comfort level, I don't think the child is less important.

A high likelihood of separation means more trouble for the kid and for the father and mother (in that order) unless there is a formal agreement going into it ahead of time. I don't think there's any arguing against that. I still don't see what is wrong with moving to protect everybody with a prenuptual agreement.