[trapper1204]

I am not a sexist. This is just how I see things by looking at what has changed 2 generations ago.

My thoughts on Crime and other stuff.
The North American home used be a safe and nurturing environment.
Dad went to work, mom kept the house, and family in tact.

It seems the generation or two before me are always saying how when they were young, there was not all this crime and gangs in schools, and look at the kids..they are so overweight.
Perhaps some if can be blamed on godlessness, but that also fits into my alternate theory.

Allot of things have changed in 2 generations, but the most substantial is the 2 income family. We as a society have places material possessions above our family in terms of worth.

Think about this.
Ever since woman have joined the workforce, the family structure has collapsed.
Some kids only see their parents first thing in the morning, and then to tuck them in at night.
Both parents working late, or on different shifts.

Kids need some kind of family structure and these days they are not finding at home, but they are finding in schools or on the streets.. surrogate families if you will.
These families provide the missing protection, and interaction they should be getting at home. Unfortunately most of these surrogate families become gangs.

Parents don't have time or energy anymore to spend quality time with their children, teach them right from wrong, and to take an interest in their kids lives.
And yes god is missing, because parents don't take their kids to church anymore.
I remember Grandma and Grandpa Harper taking me to church on Sunday, and even going to Sunday school. But it was rare, and even rarer as I grew up.
Just 2 generations ago this was not the case.
There was a dedicated child rearing parent in the home. Soft, compassionate and wise. That was a time with role models were found in home, and they were called mother.
Instead the busy parents of today, expect kid oriented television stations to do to job for them. But were is the human interaction? No matter what the kids are watching at home, not matter how you try to control what they watch, the human interaction is still on the streets and in the schools, because parents are too busy.
Mother is gone, or too tired.


This sounds extremely sexists and I am sorry for that, but as I see it, when women burned their bra's they burned the natural home.
You might be saying, to your self, that divorce rates have been on the rise for the last 2 generations as well, so that could also be a cause for the lack of parenting in the family.
Divorce to can be traced back to woman in the work force.
Did you know that 90% of all affairs that lead to divorce happen it the workforce?
Thats not to say that men are not to blame for indulging, but 2 generations ago the temptation was not there.
Now I am not blaming woman for societies problems. I am not a sexist. I blame North America's greed. We as a society have become the most materialistic on earth, measuring our own success by how many cars we have, how big our house is, what brand name of clothes you wear... etc..
Obesity is another factor that is destroying our children. Obesity leads to low self esteem. Without the parent around to provide proper guidance, and reassurance, kids will find it other places.. gangs.
But wait, fast food is cause of obesity right?
Well yes, but why has the fast food industry grown to such massive corporation in Norht America?
Because there is no mother at home to prepare healthy home cooked meals.
With both parents working, its far easier to just pick up takeout on the way home.
We are teaching our kids that you are worthless unless you have lots of money, and lots of possessions.
There is no value placed on Integrity, and morals.
Now the feminists can sneer at all of this and say, well why does it have to be the woman that stays home? why can't it be man that stays home?
In all honesty I don't know. I don't know if it would work or not.
All am pointing out is what worked in the past. I am comparing what we as a society have had in the home make up in the recent past, to what we have now.

In my opinion, I would opt for having in full time mothers back at home raising healthy children into healthy adults, rather than having two cars and a the house on the hill.
I could go on and on, and I could trace all of our societies problems to the gross evolution of the North American family that we mistakenly, and blindly call progress.

[Alejandros Mommy]

In my opinion, I would opt for having in full time mothers back at home raising healthy children into healthy adults, rather than having two cars and a the house on the hill.

You make some good points but have you thought about dads staying at home and raising the kids? I honestly don't think its the 'moms" fault for the way society is today. In the past most men did not have anything to do with raising their kids and it was mom that raised them all the time. Do you think that fathers spending more time with their kids now is a bad thing? Statistics do show that men do spend more time with their kids now then in the past. Also raising a child is a 2 person job...that is what being a parent means. Mom and dad are responsible for raising their children not just one parent. I think you need to look at the BIG picture before pointing fingers at just one sex....I am a SAHM and I don't do anything different then when I was working as a Nurse. In fact I worked double when I was working and then came home.

Also have you taken into account the amount of $ it costs to raise children? Sometimes it is not possible for one parent to stay at home...both need to work in order to have a roof over their heads. The vast majority of N. americans are Middle and lower class. Most are not going out and buying expensive cars and such...most are trying to pay their bills and make sure their kids have what they need. JMO

[trapper1204]

As I stated, I do not know how the equation works with a stay home dad.
All I am pointing out is that up until 2 generations ago we had a system that worked, and what has changed is woman joining the workforce.

Please don't get me wrong. Please ready all of my previouse post before you respond.
I am not blaming one sex, or pointing fingers at one sex.
I place the blame on our materialistic society, Male and Female.
We don't make time for things that matter anymore.

I am speaking with facts, which Is why I did use fathers at home as the example. The majority of healthy homes have at stay home mother.
But as you point out, fathers are spending more time at home, yet our society continues to deteriorate.
Woman in general are just better equipped for the role than men, in general.
Woman are the answer to our ultimate survival as species.
We need mothers at home, nurturing our children as only thay can, as they were natuarlly meant to. Rasing healthy children to healthy adults.

[kristina526]

I agree with the last response. With the way the economy is right now it is necessary for both parents to make some kind of income in most cases. My husband and I both worked for the majority of our daughter's life. I just recently left the workplace to further my education. Even when I was working my schedule allowed me to drop my daughter off and pick her up from school. If there was a day I couldn't, her grandparents stepped in. I think part of the problem with society today is that we are not eager to accept responsibility for our actions. On by not doing so we are setting a negative example for our kids.
My husband works 55+ hours a week, but still has managed to coach soccer, take karate classes with our daughter, teach her golf, etc. He manages because he wants to and enjoys it. He is a prime example that you can work but still be a positive parent that is very much involved in his child's life.
I think as a society we should stop looking back to fix problems but instead learn how to fix them by looking forward.
I also know quite a few SAHM that still don't "parent" their children. Just because someone is a SAHM or SAHdad for that matter doesn't mean their kids are not going to end up obese in a gang or have low self esteem

[mcmama]

It didn't really always work back in the day. I am old enough to remember this.

Lots of stuff has changed. For one thing, there are a lot of women in the workforce who would rather not be there, but men force them to be there. Not owning up to their responsibilities, being "players" and so on.

Gang stuff happens whether mom is working and providing for her family or staying home dependent on welfare and subsidies. Gang stuff also happens in all sorts of families.

Sorry pal, you are on a tight leash with this one. The women in the real world know what the story is. Easier to blame the woman for stepping up, or for achieving and "overstepping" than it is to blame the passive aggressive dad who does not fulfil responsibility - and the society that does not value the contribution the woman does make at home, or her authority.

Besides, many of us who stay at home are also working at some income producing activity when possible. It's all a balancing act, and in happy marriages, that involves dads in the balance too.

I know a number of women in my divorce support group who stayed home, and gave it their all, and now they regret it. The continuing emotional abuse and denigration shown them by the childrens father or by extended family just set them up to be the sin eater for the family's failures. Now that they go to work after 15 or 20 years, in their 40s and 50s, with teen kids, in those "bad single mom homes", they are told it is all their fault, they are selfish, etc. Meantime joyboy goes on to his next victim, tossing a little bling toward the kiddies, making sure that they know to tell their hardworking mom who struggles to keep the rent paid what a loser she is.
Not gonna study those mommy wars no more. Don't like where you are going with this.

[DivasMomma]

dont know numbers but i know 2 generations ago the divorce rate wasnt as high...i believe that divorce has a HUGE impact on how a child is raised and what brings anger into them...you were right about the kids looking for "other families" such as gangs..and i blame it more on divorce then I do on a mother not SAH...

i was raised by my dad, who obviously, had to work too. So i had both sides against me..no mom and no one "SAH" with me....i didnt join a gang...it deifnitly comes down to what you instill on your children, as far as morals and values. And showing them you will not tolerate any actions you dont agree with.

too many parents are their kids friends these days...be a parent and maybe your children will respect you enough to stay out of trouble

[trapper1204]

Originally Posted by Aiden&Alejandros Mommy

Mom and dad are responsible for raising their children not just one parent. I think you need to look at the BIG picture before pointing fingers at just one sex...

Very true.
The roles are all that I dispute.
We can look back and know what worked by comparing with how our society has changed.

Both parents even back then, raised the child, but they roles were significanly different.
One was primarily a provider and one was primarily a nurturer.
In the past, the man was the provider, and woman was the nurturer, which is why I used that as an example.

[mcmama]

But see, Rhianna, I REMEMBER the days when the divorce rate was not as high - a lot of it had to do with the way the rules were written in those days - and there were a lot of unhappy people, not just women. I was actually part of a very happy family, but a lot of my friends did not see the affection between their parents, and the balance of home life that I saw.

When I was growing up (born in 1955) unhappy women were given more pills than hyperactive kids today. Only they were given valium. Barbituates. Amphetimines. Stuff to calm you down. Stuff to pep you up. And if you were grieving a death or any kind of a loss, well, if you were female, you were supposed to take a pill. I realized as a teen that a lot of moms of school aged kids were doing the morning chauffer duty, cleaning, cooking, getting everyone all set with their afternoon sports or go play somewhere, and then settling down before dinner for a drink or two. or three. To unwind, you know. Sometimes ladies got together, to watch Dinah Shore and chit chat, and drink. My mom didn;t bother with that, but she had plenty of friends who did. All the fuss about poker today is NOTHING compared to the stakes of some of those at home mom bridge games, once the kids were in school.

It was difficult for women to follow professions, (my aunt was chief of nurses of a large research hospital) and to find child care that was appropriate. People like my aunt depended on family, and on the "village" of neighbors. People today make longer commutes into major cities, they work strange hours, and sometimes they work at home. The village is really not coming together anymore.

I remember when my father died in 1966, and within a few months my mom, who was seriously grieving, got named as co respondent in a divorce suit. She had met the man, someone my father worked with, once, when he came with a co worker to pay a condolence call. This guy was a known philanderer. But in those days, women had to prove it, there was no such thing as no fault. This poor woman was so desparate to get out of an abusive marriage, that she tried to take advantage of my mom, figuring she either might get lucky and be onto something, or that someone as worn down as my mom was at that point would not fight it.

My mom called her attorney, and then called my dad's union rep. They put the pressure on the guy to throw his wife a bone so she would back off my mom. That;s how things were done in the good old days when there were fewer divorces.

My mom felt so bad in the midst of her grief for this poor woman who had not known the love she;d had, and who was forced to humiliate herself in order to escape the hell her husband was putting her through.

But that was the good old days, when families stayed together, no matter what.

[DivasMomma]

i guess theres gonna be problems anywhere you look....

now its the kids, then the moms were unhappy, im sure somewhere in between dads are gonna be something....

maybe there just isnt such a thing as a "perfect society"

[pamperedpeterson]

Janet, I think you made a good point with the divorce rate being low but people being unhappy. When I was 15, my parents seperated, with dad coming "home" on the weekends. I hated being home, because it was just fight after fight after fight. They had been married for 24 years, and suddenly they hated one another. Was it because my mom became lazy and didn't nurture us 8 kids (4 still at home)? Maybe. Was it because my dad had affairs? Probably. But it's tough to figure out which one happened first.
All I can say, is that when dad finally decided to file the divorce papers, I was thanking God in my prayers. The stress was gone, and the "grieving" could begin.
So I'm not old enough for "the good old days" but I do remember the pain of when "husband and wife" stopped caring what the other one thought.